How would GRM do it? Un-E36ing a Passenger Van

Hello Everyone,

Wondering what the hivemind can come up with in regard to me trying to satisfy all of my speculative needs for the next tow pig. We go back and forth to florida 4-6 times a year and I am trying to make it as comfortable as possible.

My needs:

Tows at least 7500lbs

Spacious enough for three people and a weeks worth of gear, plus 3 150-200lb malamutes (this is the real issue)

Not sky high to get in and out of, my oldest pup is getting up in age and something that he has to jump in and out of is a no go. At the same time a ramp wide enough and sturdy enough takes up a lot of room, have a roof mounted one currently but taking it on and off all the time is tedious hence this thought process. (this seems to axe any of the extra large three row suvs)

So with that in mind I believe I have decided on a e-series or express van (preferably with the diesels if I can find one that isnt too much of a mark up) but after driving a couple the penalty box interior is a real let down. High NVH and plastic all around.

What would GRM do to try and alleviate the interior woes? Some scheelmann seats are a given (they are a game changer and worth every penny) but short of tearing apart the interior and dynamat-ing everything I dont know how else I could make any noticeable improvements, although I may be wrong and it would be worth it? I can add a better head unit/speakers, throw in some seat heaters if needed, etc. but still feels like it would be somewhat clapped together. Conversion vans are nicer inside but you lose a lot of towing capacity and they seem to only be on the 1500 models. Sprinters while a step above cant tow that much. Maybe a Nissan NV? Needs to fit in a driveway so RV's are also out.

Anyone got ideas that I havent thought of?

What would GRM do?

Tow behind RV, put the dogs and 1 person in there. Frees up a ton of space.

The "no jumping" requirement + 7500 lb towing cap really does limit you to panel vans. 

I would (read: Pay someone to) tear apart the interior and dynamat it. Head unit/speakers mask more noise the more you turn up the volume but you reach an intersection of "reasonable volume" and "reasonable NVH". 

You're not fixing the noise of driving a steel shipping box on wheels made to be cheap and rugged by buying a nissan vs a chevy or ford. I'd be tempted to build an insulated bulkhead with a door behind the front seats and concentrate on making the front seats quieter and letting the dogs have the back. 

Having a person inside a moving towed trailer is technically illegal in the US

In reply to calteg :

Not legal in some states (most? Maybe all? ) and not a good plan in any. Personal experience in that, since "hey, Bubba! Watch this" has been said, before!

Yeah I am not trying to turn anything into a Mercedes by any means, but most of the passenger vans I have come across are as bare bones as you get. My idea would be to remove one or two benches and have the two front seats and a bench, then give the dogs everything left. I can put a car topper on if needed too.

I can add the sound and seats easy enough, but road tripping a box like that gets rough. I have done it in a sprinter before and it was nice, but they are expensive and then I would still need something to tow when I need too.

Would dynamat-ing everything make that much of a difference? or are we talking incremental improvements?

Alternative question, could I lower say a diesel excursion in a way that wouldn't compromise the towing? Could I go air ride and just have the bags empty to load the dogs in?

You, my friend, are looking for a conversion van. They can be found on 2500- or 3500-series chassis and should have enough space, towing, and interior comforts to do what you need.

Something like this:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/800960821098522/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post

Explorer is a van conversion company and they are rather high end.  As such, they are never really cheap, but...  They typically start with a GM 2500 (beefier van.)  As high end they are often awd and often have the side doors on both sides.  

Used sample local to you.  Their asking prices are huge but I do not feel confident that they really sell at these high prices.  Like luxury things, most people who care about labels want a new one, not an old one.  Sure, they can be $100k new but shop dilligently and there may be a good used one.  

7900# towing is a big number.  Your Excursion idea is a good idea, even if the V10 and not diesel.  Staying 2wd might help to find one down south in reasonable condition at a not exorbitant price like the diesel ones.  

AMiataCalledSteve said:

Something like this:

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/800960821098522/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post

I'm always sending these to my wife lol

I'm not married to the diesel, but I know it will tow and seems like they hold their value. Is it worth going 2010 plus on the chevys to get the 6L80 vs the 4?

Unique:  Older Explorer
I can't read the door badge well enough to tell if it is a 1500 or 2500

Do the dogs need AC?  How about a crew cab pickup with a camper shell?  You'd still need a ramp, but you could slide it into the bed after the dogs have climbed up, which is a lot easier than putting it on the roof.

E350 with the V10 (with the most common axle) has a 10k towing rating.  

When I was shopping for a used Express two years ago, I found TONS of highly-optioned passenger vans.  The 8-passenger I ended up getting has a full headliner and heavily-padded carpet... like 2" padded so it's the same height as the seat brackets.  Zero penalty box, even with A/T tires, a Magnaflow muffler, and the rear seat removed.

Mine has dual power seats, rear air, power everything, driver's side rear barn doors, AWD, the works

I would look to passenger and conversion vans.  Conversion vans are a niche product that tends to lose value faster than a regular van.  Problem is, many of them are 1/2 ton and already over GVWR with a full tank of gas.  3/4 ton is the way to go.  Passenger vans have the same sound deadening.

Diesel is a great idea, but again... how many passenger and conversion vans came with the diesel?  The only ones I've seen are DOT transports.  They're a 12 or 15 passenger van used to take road workers to and from construction sites.  Some of those are diesel.

Powerstroke vans are fine in the 7.3L version, although usually beat by now.  The 6.0L and 6.4L need bulletproofing.  If you're not familiar with it, look it up.  It's a process of replacing a bunch of high-dollar parts that can fail and have catastrophic consequences.  In the F-trucks, it's a multi-thousand dollar quest which requires removing the cab from the frame.  In a van, it requires removing the entire body from the frame.  Do not recommend unless it has already been bulletproofed with receipts.  The 6.7L is a mighty fine diesel, but expect gas-like MPG and frequent CELs for DPFs.

Duramax vans are lovely, but a little lackluster.  Instead of finding a way to fit the Allison transmission in it, they put a 4L80E in it and derated the Dmax to 250hp.  It's just a tune so it's an easy fix... if you want to continually replace transmissions.  More than enough torque for towing 7500, but not a "performance" vehicle by any means.  Pre-08 keeps you away from DPF.

With any diesel, I would suggest pre-08 unless the only thing it's doing is long-hauls.  DPF + DD = headaches

My 06 Express 1500 AWD is rated to tow 7500 with the 5.3L and 4L60E, and it did it well on the previous E-range tires.  Haven't tried it on the new 20" and XL tires, but it's rare that I tow that much, usually around 5000.  Not sure how the 4L60E likes it, but we'll find out when it blows up.

LarsBrunkhorst said:

I'm not married to the diesel, but I know it will tow and seems like they hold their value. Is it worth going 2010 plus on the chevys to get the 6L80 vs the 4?

Definitely worth it to get the 6L80/90 over the 4, but then I wouldn't recommend the diesel in front of it because DPF  I'm over here trying to research how terrible it will be to retro a 6L90 into my 06 AWD Express.  Spoiler alert.... it's terrible.

Gently used church bus.

3/4 ton vans often come in 2 different GVW's. The heavy duty is about 8600 and is what you want. Look for 8 lugs, lighter ones are 6 or 5.

I will also say (as a bona fide diesel freak) that diesels are super nice for towing, but also [blasphemy, I know] they're not entirely necessary.  Newer gas engines in trucks have far more hp and comparable torque than a 7.3L stroke in stock form.  You can get a 6.0L LS with 375hp and 450tq.

So, given the post-08 DPFs, unless you're looking for an earlier Dmax or a (very old)  7.3L stroke, gas might be the ticket.  I hate saying that, but later diesels aren't the driving value they used to be.

What I'm saying is (after doing this search myself) I think finding the diesel van you want will limit you to an infinitely small pool of product, and removing the diesel requirement will open up thousands of possibilities.  My dream was a diesel AWD express, but they were never made.  I was looking at either buying a diesel van and having it converted to Awd/4wd (huge money) or buying a gas AWD van and converting to Dmax (huge money plus body surgery plus emissions no-no)  Once I removed the diesel requirement, I found lots of vans.  Still crave it though.

Other possibility is to find a diesel cargo van and do your own de-penalty-boxing.  Weld in the rear seat brackets, dynamat, carpet, headliner, etc.

Look at a bunch of conversion vans to see what they did and copy the good parts,

On a Express van there is a lot of roof space above the front seat area for gauges, radios , storage etc

Also decide if you want sliding side door or a double door ,

There are also 2 lengths / wheelbase on the express van ,

The extra lenght is between the side door edge and wheelwell 

In reply to californiamilleghia :

You make a good point.  Diesel cargo van + interior parts from a wrecked conversion van = no penalty box.

Also check with your insurance company.  I know in some states like TX and CA, unless the van has side windows and seats in the back it has to be insured commercially.  In CA they use the physical van, so if you cut windows and install seats, you're good.  I think in TX they use the VIN and that's it.

Lotta guys will upfit the seats from a Toyota Sienna - apparently they are the bees knees for DIY comfort in a full size van.  

Other than that I don't know a whole ton on them, pretty typical stuff applies.  8 lug axles are a must if you want to tow, decent highway tread tires and a quiet exhaust and it wont be too bad but at the end of the day you are still driving a big steel box down the road.  The comment regarding price and durability being more important than comfort was definitely spot-on.