I don't like FWD much. Recommend me a car to change my mind?

Mostly idle speculation at this point...

I've got a well documented dislike/'meh' for hot hatches and sporty FWD cars in a HPDE/track driving situation. I've tried to overcome it before (I've owned both an Integra Type-R and a 2nd gen CRX with a B16) but I'm still preferring RWD for track duty. I do like my 1st gen CRX Si on the road, but I wouldn't want to drive it on the track. The one FWD car I really liked were my two Alfa 156s but obviously those aren't available over here.

Problem is that if I want something a little more powerful, spacious and RWD than a Miata for only $6k[1], I have a very small selection of cars, especially if I want something that's less than 20 years old and has had owners with a mechanical clue that have to shave more than once a month.

However, I'm seeing many more Civic SIs (including the 99-00 ones), Mini Cooper Ss, RSXs and the like close to my budget. Yeah, a lot of them are salvage title cars but that doesn't matter to me much for a track shed.

So, if I want balanced handling and quicker than a Miata[2], what would the font recommend?

[1] Yes, I know, Mustang Fox Body, Cambird, C4 etc but most of those require a fair amount of work to go around corners

[2] Without bolting performance enhancers to the Miata, that is

You aren't going to have a better handling FWD car than the ITR, with the CRX a very close second.

If those two didn't do it for you, the very similar and slightly worse 99-00 Civic Si won't turn you on, or the others. Rsx handling was worse than the previous generation, and the mini to me basically felt like if BMW made a Civic.

"I've owned both an Integra Type-R and a 2nd gen CRX with a B16"

If neither of those convinced you that FWD is worthwhile, then you are out of luck.

(I am guessing there will be E30 recommendations.)

I don't know that there's anything outright BETTER than the ITR, but there's others you might "click" with better.

Neon ACR?

Celica GTS?

Yea, I'd go along with the Neon. That's probably the most RWD like FWD car I've driven hard.

RWD is better for track duty. If an ITR isn't good enough for you, probably nothing will be...

You screwed if an ITR didn't do it. Easily the best FWD car I've ever driven. An ST* prepped CRX was a close second as well as a cooper-S.

I think the problem you're going to have is that all FWD cars will tend to understeer due to their nature and when you add in the factory suspension settings it will be nearly terminal.

You can counteract this to some extent by leveraging left foot braking with throttle input to help unsettle the rear end and induce oversteer to point the front end towards the apex. Altering springs, sway bars or tire pressure/sizes can all be used to reduce traction in the rear to induce oversteer.

If you're unable to adjust your driving style and suspension setup to compensate, you'll never be comfortable and perhaps should not bother trying anything other than RWD. Especially since you've already tried an ITR and a CRX both of which are held up as the world's standard for FWD handling (when properly configured).

If you're balking at having to make setup changes and improvements on a RWD car, like on the C4 for example, the changes needed to almost any FWD car will be even more extreme. So I'm not sure why you wouldn't just look at one of those RWD cars, make the necessary mods and potentially be happy?

Unfortunately, you're in a difficult spot since you want a RWD car less than 20 years old for under 6K that will fit you. That list is awfully short, shorter still if you also want to drive it on the street legally. For FWD, that list will be an Integra, CRX, Neon, Focus SVT, GTi, Celica, SE-R/NX2000, Cobalt SS, etc.

Here's an example list: http://editorial.autos.msn.com/8-track-toys-for-less-than-10-grand-1#2

Wait... when did a C4 require a lot of work to go around corners? When I first bought mine that was all it did well.

The "needs work to go around corners" was mostly targeted towards the Mustangs and Cambirds, not the C4s. Our C4 did go around corners OK.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

I'm tempted to say you should learn how to drive FWD, but that would just be mean.

In reply to oldsaw:

The issue is more that it felt the car(s) weren't communicating to me as well as a RWD car - I think the fastest laps I've ever put in on track was in the ITR around Brands Hatch. Heck, I managed to lap an Ex-BTCC Integra (later model, equivalent to the RSX over here), but that might have had more to do with them taking it slow. It just didn't talk to me in a way I could understand.

Plus, torque steer bothers me...

Due to your 20 year cut off.. that rules out the Classic Saab 900. While I have never driven an ITR, the true double wishbone suspension, equal length drive shafts, and central mounted mass of engine and transmission made for a very balanced handling car.

It's drawback being a fairly fragile transmission that requires removal of both engine and transmission to repair

I've owned both C900s and C99 SAABs - I would say the ITR is a better handling car, at least out of the box. I remember the SAABs as much more understeery, but that might be just my recollection.

BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to oldsaw: The issue is more that it felt the car(s) weren't communicating to me as well as a RWD car - I think the fastest laps I've ever put in on track was in the ITR around Brands Hatch. Heck, I managed to lap an Ex-BTCC Integra (later model, equivalent to the RSX over here), but that might have had more to do with them taking it slow. It just didn't talk to me in a way I could understand. Plus, torque steer bothers me...

Well, with a Honda, that's not something you have to worry about.

How about a MR2?

Honestly, it's going to be hard to beat the ITR. I'm not a Honda fanboi and I still think those are some of hte best of the FWD breed.

The Contour or Focus SVT might be close with perhaps the Mini Cooper S being in the mix as well. Since he's looking for feel and communication, that's going to be difficult without test driving a bunch of cars.

If we're looking feel and communication valued more than outright performance, i'd suggest a 5th gen Celica. In bone stock form with stock sized crap tires, they're pretty numb feeling.

I had TONS of feedback and communication when all was said and done with mine.

Just wish this thread had happened sooner, i would have rather sold it to a GRMer than let it go to a random and then hear what happened to it.

Oh, and you can fit a TON of tire under them.

I would suggest a 240sx and an E36 325 or 328. Those are inexpensive, fun and rear-wheel drive.

240sx are no longer inexpensive thanks to the drift-tax as they are either cheap and completely destroyed or "modified" and people want way too much money for them. The few stock ones get snapped up nearly instantly by the doriftos.

Cooper S with the sport package, and a Mazdaspeed Protege- easily the two most brilliant FWD chassis I've ever driven. I hate my S because of fixing it, but damn if that thing didn't handle.

If you don't like torque steer, than try an Audi. Pretty nose heavy, but a 1.8T can put out really good power and their front suspension design eliminates that annoying torque steer. Of course you'll have to replace the front bushings on a regular basis.

I don't like Audis, sorry.

Try a SN95 Mustang, they handle lot better than the fox bodies. If you want a V6, only look at new edge, 99-04, the older V6's are gutless in stock form. I don't know about the next generation, I have never driven one but I did follow one that took corners at 1/2 the speed I do.