I haz a bit of a sad (911 content)

As of this morning, I'm officially 911-less . OK, so it's been parked on the wrong continent for 2 1/2 years and I couldn't use it as a result but still, it makes me a little sad. It's gone to a good home but I didn't realise how much I actually liked that car.

That said, I can now ramp up the search for one over here so all is not lost. Which means I want to kick some ideas around you bunch of enablers .

Said ideas center around what to replace a Carrera 3.2 with and so far I've come up with the following (wife is very enthusiastic about getting another 911 so ideas like Caterhams and NSXs don't seem to fly):

• Another SC/C3.2/964, or even an older hot rodded one, provided that it's in good shape. I don't need yet another reminder how much properly done bodywork on one of these cost. Some quirks aside, anything older than the 964 is about as complex as a box of rocks which is good as it affords more DIY-ability. Plus, I know I like these for their raw feel. Big bonus here is that I can probably pay cash for one if I sell the Miata, downside is that if I sell the Miata I'll have to use the 911 for HPDE/CT as well. We're also talking about another car that's at least 25 years old and as I use the cars much more over here it might be time for something a little more modern.
• 996TT - with the sale of the C3.2 I have a substantial downpayment but would have to borrow money to buy one, but the advantage is that I would end up with a much newer car. It might even work as a daily driver, but I'd still need a winter car simply because it doesn't have enough ground clearance. Oh, and it's probably one of the biggest performance bargains at the moment.
• 996 GT3. That came a bit out of the left field when I noticed that they weren't much more expensive than a low-ish mileage turbo. Yes, we're talking another $5k-$10k here, but we're also talking limited edition 911 with handbuilt engines. Every review raves about them, they also don't suffer from the regular 996 issues like IMS and as a limited edition car, history suggests that they'll probably hold their value very well, too. I like low depreciation cars. Downsides apart from the price are again the need for a winter car, plus I'll probably never use it in its natural habitat as I'd be afraid to track something that cost me as much as the last five cars together.

WWGRMD?

996 GT3.

No question, for me at least.

z31maniac wrote: 996 GT3. No question, for me at least.

This.

Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote:

z31maniac wrote: 996 GT3. No question, for me at least.

This.

I didn't even read the whole thread but, yeah, what a machine.

BoxheadTim wrote: Downsides apart from the price are again the need for a winter car, plus I'll probably never use it in its natural habitat as I'd be afraid to track something that cost me as much as the last five cars together.

Would it be any fun to own a 911 GT3 you never get to wring out?

OTOH, what does track day insurance cost for something like that?

Personally I would go for the 996 GT3 for the reasons you mentioned. My neighbor who has had quite a few Porsches and tracks a 944S2 and says the 996 GT3 is his dream car.

If a GT3 is within financial reach and the wife approves...

...means I hate you.

+1 for 996 GT3.

ransom wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote: Downsides apart from the price are again the need for a winter car, plus I'll probably never use it in its natural habitat as I'd be afraid to track something that cost me as much as the last five cars together.

Would it be any fun to own a 911 GT3 you never get to wring out?

That's actually a very good point. Didn't think of it like that but there isn't that much (legal) opportunity out here to do that unless I track it.

ransom wrote: OTOH, what does track day insurance cost for something like that?

Actually insurance is something that I might want to investigate beforehand anyway. I have a bit of a suspicion that if I can my insurance co and ask for a quote, I'll hear champagne corks popping in the background. With the SC/3.2/964 I know how much it would cost me to insure the car and they're actually not that bad.

A guy I know owns a GT3 that he uses for track days and autocross. He said that he wanted it because to him, as an engineer and a Porsche fan, it represents the ultimate, pure sports car tool that Porsche made at the time. (You could argue for the GT2, but that's was a little over the top for his needs.)

He mentioned that every GT3 out there (including his) has or will have body damage to the rear quarters. The car's limits are incredibly high, but there is absolutely no gray area in the transition point from 10/10 to 11/10.

It really depends on what you want from your car but for me, the 996 TT is such a huge bargain right now, it would be hard to argue against it, unless you wanted a pure track toy.

I'll actually cast my official vote for EITHER of the other two cars.

Not because i think i would personally choose them over a GT3, but because you say that you probably wouldn't take it to track days due to cost of the car.

A GT3 makes for a E36 M3ty daily driver, and if you won't track it, then it's not worth having.

The Turbo would make a great street car, highway hauler, etc etc etc...

The older 964 would make a good street car, give you that old school porsche feel, and you could track it.

If i were in your shoes and had the means to run a Porsche on the track, i would. So i'd go with the 964. If you want something newer, i'd go with the Turbo. It'll be more enjoyable 95% of the time than the GT3 in the event you wouldn't be using either on the track, AND it's cheaper.

All the a/c 911s are heading up the value curve. 996 variations may still be on the slide. Getting the cash back on these may be a multi-year proposition - maybe longer if you're financing. Getting your money back on an a/c version could be done in a week.

Personally, I have two thoughts - I'm intrigued at picking up a 74-77 as the last of the cheap a/c versions. The other thought is the 964. A flat bargain compared to a 993 and it is a step up over the previous 911s in brakes, suspension and transmission. Mrs. Oldtin calls the 996/997s fat man cars. There's also a difference in feel - 996s have a mass produced feel - 993 and older have more of the hand-built feel.

Then again, if you want to go pretty fast and have less of the old school 911 quirks the 996s will do that.

PS: Go drive a Cayman S.

I personally wouldn't get a GT3 if I wasn't going to use it on the track.

Why is a 993 not on the list? I am not a 911-guy, but it's the one I've always wanted.

tuna55 wrote: Why is a 993 not on the list? I am not a 911-guy, but it's the one I've always wanted.

They cost more than 996s

Before you go for the 996 GT3... stop. If you are afraid to track it, don't bother. That is really all it is good (brilliant ) for and you will pay a premium for every bushing, bearing and brake pad.

Oh, also, it eats rear tires like cookies and 3 sets of them will cost more than a Miata. Good luck getting more than 10k out of a set.

It rides like a track car because it is a track car. Handles like a razor but knocks your teeth out on PA style potholes.

Hand-built engine... Porsche, always known for their "fair" pricing of engine parts may have made an exception here. Price some stuff you will need to replace someday.

Call your insurance company and just ask for a quote, for fun.

Logic prevailing here - if you aren't planning to be a track day star with all that entails, don't buy the track car.

oldtin wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Why is a 993 not on the list? I am not a 911-guy, but it's the one I've always wanted.

They cost more than 996s

Certainly not more than 996 GT3s, though, right? And I think I'd rather go aircooled...

The top end of 993's prices and low end of 996 GT3's will cross paths. My take on it is that 964s can be had for 1/2 or less.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: The older 964 would make a good street car, give you that old school porsche feel, and you could track it. ... If i were in your shoes and had the means to run a Porsche on the track, i would. So i'd go with the 964.

Mine is likely to be for sale shortly if anyone is interested and not put off by an $18k price tag (cheaper if you want to fix the heater blower motor yourself!)

4 new tires, tie rods, boots, oil cooler, plugs, filter and 12qts of Mobil 1 put in last week... I was just getting to the blower, and some interior rattles that have been bugging me all summer.... but I need $ to put an S54 in my race car. Trade me the Miata as a DD replacement and it gets even more affordable.

In reply to Matt B:

even without the wife's approval!

I vote 996TT, GT3 is awesome but like everyone else is saying most of the time you will drive this on the street and you want to enjoy it. The 996TT is a great DD and road trip car. Gets decent gas mileage, doesnt have the engine issues of the base 996 and is still fast as hell

how much "softer" is the GT3 than the GT3 RS?

I went through the same thing and ended up with the GT3. It is a fine car in the 996, and I think most of the tail happy problems people have with the 996 are tire related.

The 996 GT3 is not as aggressive as you would think in a stock configuration. With the fancy CGT seats that they all seem to have makes it seem sportier then it really is. Its better then the standard C2S though. The suspension is very compliant on anything but the worst road, for a track focused car that is.

There are a bunch of factory aero cars out there with GT3 badges so just keep that in mind.

When they built the 997 is when Porsche went nuts, you can spec out a full on track car with the dynamic engine mounts and the RS is just extra nutty in terms of suspension stiffness.

If you're curious about operating costs of a GT3 that is used on the track regularly: http://macnugget.org/cars/gt3rs/

robert