I might be losing my mind. I'm thinking about selling my AP2 S2000... thoughts from the hivemind?

I'm looking for thoughts and feedback for something that has been eating at me for a while. This is a long winded rant that I've been giving thought to for quite a while now... 

I'm thinking about selling my laguna blue 2008 AP2 S2000. I never thought I would write those words.

The S2000 is a great car- very involving driver's car. The issue is I don't drive it very much anymore; it mostly just sits in my garage. I've started to treat it less like a car and more like a collector's item/investment.

They are definitely appreciating in value. Although it's not as profitable as some might realize. The car is definitely worth more money now that it was 3 years ago when I bought it... but I don't know if it's appreciated enough to cover the cost of insurance, taxes, registration and maintenance I've paid on it. I don't know if they actually appreciate fast enough to cover the cost of annual insurance and registration (close to ~$1000 a year). As far as profitable investments go, I can think of better/more profitable ways to invest my money.

This issue actually started about a year ago when I bought my black 2009 NC Miata. That was the first time I told my wife I was considering selling the S2000. Not because I disliked the S2000, but because I found myself driving the NC Miata about ~3 times as much as the S2000. I mentioned to my wife a few times that I just didn't know if the S2000 had much of a purpose for me anymore because I was driving the NC so much and the S2000 so little.

To be clear, the S2000 is faster than the NC Miata. It has considerably more power (237hp vs 167hp), although it is a good bit heavier (~2850 lbs vs ~2480 lbs). Above 6000rpm, the S2000 is a riot to drive! The problem is I don't run it out to redline very often... and below 6000rpm, my NC felt just as quick, if not quicker. And being a lighter car, the NC was a bit more fun to toss around. The S2000 is hyper-focused, which can be a blast! But these days, I don't drive it in anger much.

I enjoy the top-down pleasure of owning a roadster on a nice day, with a bit of spirited driving in between. The issue I found when I owned the NC was that I could get the same experience for a fraction of the cost and without the "investment" concerns.

I find myself not wanting to tinker with the S2000 due to the investment nature of the car and not wanting to devalue the car. Bolt-ons wouldn't do much for it anyway (they're pretty tapped out from the factory) and I've considered a supercharger, but the price of used F22C engines makes me hesitate... most of the F22C's engines I've seen lately (mostly on Ebay) have been in the $5000-$6500 range, used (they don't make them new anymore). That's also part of the reason I have little interest in tracking the car: as parts become more rare, they're becoming expensive and more difficult to find.

By contrast, when I owned the NC I didn't really care if I blew a motor. It was just an excuse to pull a 2.5L out of a Ford Fusion in a junkyard for $400 and with a few bolt-ons make ~170-180whp and ~170-180wtq on a motor that bolts right into the 2400-2500 lbs car. Want a brand new engine instead? No problem, Ford will sell you a brand new 2.5L long-block for a couple grand. Break something on the track? No problem, Mazda Motorsports exists and is awesome. Want reasonable priced upgrades? Flyin Miata is a few hours away from me and Goodwin Racing exists... Get a scratch on the car in a store parking lot? Who cares, it's a Miata, not a collector's item. Want to have fun with the car? You don't need to rev it to the moon to get it moving, it's not fast by any means, but it's peppy enough to have a good time at lower speeds.

I am not saying the NC is a better car than the S2000. But I am illustrating why I drove my NC far more often than my S2000 when I owned it.

These days, the car I end up driving the most is my old 105hp E36 M3box EK Civic hatch. I can pitch that bucket of bolts around with abandon and I don't care if I break something on it. The old saying is true: it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow. I've owned several 400-500hp cars over the years; and none of them have been as much fun to drive as some of the slow E36 M3boxes I've pitched around.

I sold my NC last year, not because I didn't like the car (I loved it), but because it didn't class well into autocross or time attack and I used the funds from selling it to finance an autocross/time attack car. Mistakes were made. 

In regards to "why the NC?": we've owned all 4 generations of Miata and the NC was my favorite by a good margin. The NA/NB are fun, but they are rattle cans by comparison that I never really chose over my S2000. The ND is phenomenal (besides the numb electric steering), but I don't hardly fit in that car; which is why I didn't buy an ND years ago. I literally fit better in the NA/NB than I do the ND. If I were a smaller person (I'm about 6'2", 215 lbs) I probably would have bought an ND a few years ago. The NC is the sweet spot for me. 

I struggled to understand how the NC Miata was so much lighter (~350 lbs is substantial for cars of seemingly similar size) than the S2000 with nearly identical interior space until I started digging into it. I figured out a few things:

-Pretty much everything on the S2000 is stamped steel (as was just about everything designed in the 90's). The NC made heavy (or light?!?) use of aluminum for a plethora of components.

-The S2000 is a physically longer car. That doesn't translate into more passenger space, as they lengthened the hood to push the engine further back in the engine bay. There's nearly 2 feet of space between the F22C engine and the radiator (way more than the NC). The NC's engine is further back than the NA/NB, but not as far back at the S2000, giving it less of a rearward weight bias (52/48 vs 50/50). The NC's hood is shorter, giving you less space between the engine and radiator.

-The S2000 has a powered convertible top that adds weight to the car. The NC's is manual (sans PRHT).

-The S2000 has legitimate roll hoops behind the driver/passenger that actually extend all the way to the floor. This adds weight and takes away interior space. The NC essentially has "style bars" bolted in right behind the seats, that are much smaller/lighter and don't remove interior space.

If I sold the S2000, I could pick up a very nice NC for likely less than half of what I could sell the S2000 for... with the other half, I would throw the money towards paying off my daily driver, with the goal of having my daily paid off within a few months and being completely debt free (aside from our mortgage). When our oldest kids move out (hopefully within the next 5-6 years), my goal long term is to sell our current house, downsize and have enough equity that we can be completely debt free around that time. If I paid off my only other debt (monthly car payment), I would use the money saved to throw more cash at my mortgage and into retirement. To be clear, I don't need to do this; monthly we're doing well financially. I would just like the ability to be debt free within 5-7 years and the freedom to take a pay cut if I wanted to leave my current profession.

I don't want to live so miserly that I can't enjoy living. But I'm not sure that I'm getting my money's worth out of the S2000, with it mostly just sitting in the garage, when I might enjoy another NC just as much on a regular basis (I would likely drive it more, due to it being less of an investment) for far less money. At this point, I think the NC is pretty much fully depreciated (current insane market notwithstanding), so long term, I don't think I would lose anything if I ever changed my mind. I would likely mod it just a bit (I have no interest in another track car build, but adjusting it occasionally to suit my wants for a fun street car sounds appealing), but mostly it would just be for date nights and cruising on a nice warm sunny day with the top down, with the occasional HPDE day sprinkled in here or there, just for fun. I've autocrossed the S2000, but I'm hesitant about tracking it due to the investment factor and how much the cost of a new motor is in the case something happened to it (i.e. I'm an idiot that is just one money-shift away from hearing bad noises).

I'm planning on taking my time, test driving a few NC's back to back with my S2000 and seeing how I feel before I make any rash decisions. There have been a few cars over the years that I thought I really liked, but upon re-driving them, I realized it was all in my head.

I've been mulling over this idea for a year now and figured I would get some feedback from my fellow car guys. The only thing that has really held me back was the idea that if I regretting selling it, I know how difficult it would be to find another laguna blue AP2 S2000 with a clean Carfax and low-ish miles for a reasonable price. That's really the only reason I didn't sell it when I bought my NC...

Has anyone on here ever bought a car they lusted after, just to eventually watch it sit in the garage? Did you sell it? Any regrets, one way or another? Thoughts?

My 2006 S2000 that I bought new sits in the garage and it currently has 58k miles. The first year I put 30k miles on it, then my first son was born and I just did a couple of trips to the dragon and a Florida to California trip with it. Barely drive it.

I was in the same boat as you, thinking of selling it and thus removed pretty much the whole Mugen catalog off of it and sold it. Now I regret that because I want to keep it and all that stuff is impossible to source or not made anymore. I did keep my supercharger though :D

Anyways, not sure what my point is but I understand where you are coming from.

If you have doubts, and you can take that money and buy another car you enjoy more + pay off debts, then sell it. Its not doing you any good sitting around.

If you're looking at the car as an investment and you're scared to drive it because it might explode or get damaged, make it go away. It's not a car anymore. It's an obligation.

...he says confidently, with 5 cars on his "I should sell that" list...

I sold my more expensive cars to focus on cheaper cars that I can drive harder and will use at various venues.  I get it.  Good luck, as there is no perfect choice.  

I think you've done an excellent job of describing your thoughts on the subject. It's all really rational to me. I see no reason to keep the S 2000.
 

Sell it, get the NC.  I haven't owned an NC myself, but I really like them. Yes, you're right that they don't fit in any of the autocross classes, and that's why I own a 99 sport, but if I could own another Miata for a fun car, I'd have an NC. 

You've pretty much summed up my thought process before I stuck my S2000 on BaT (minus the NC part). I'm happy I ended up selling it although if I had held onto it for another year or two, I might have got a fair amount more money. But it was time.

Sell it. Sounds a lot like a thread I started earlier this year about my E36.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

I think you've done an excellent job of describing your thoughts on the subject. It's all really rational to me. I see no reason to keep the S 2000.
 

Sell it, get the NC.  I haven't owned an NC myself, but I really like them. Yes, you're right that they don't fit in any of the autocross classes, and that's why I own a 99 sport, but if I could own another Miata for a fun car, I'd have an NC. 

Thanks brother, I appreciate it! 

It's funny, when I sold my NC, one of the cars I bought was a 99 Sport to run ES. I flew out to Florida to pick it up and drove it back out here to Colorado.

As of right now, there's no real place for the NC in the SCCA, but in SCCA Time Trials next year, I think that's going to change. The last thing I saw, next season they were talking about removing the BRZ/FRS (specifically in SSC guise) out of Sport 6 (where they were a major over-dog) and placing them into Sport 5. Oddly enough, they are going to move the RX-8 out of Sport 5, into Sport 6, where the only 2 cars I can see being competitive are the NC and the RX-8. It should make for good competition. Finally, a place for the NC to be competitive; as they haven't really been competitive anywhere since the ND was released... 

Keith Tanner said:

If you're looking at the car as an investment and you're scared to drive it because it might explode or get damaged, make it go away. It's not a car anymore. It's an obligation.

 

...he says confidently, with 5 cars on his "I should sell that" list...

I've never thought about it that way. Solid perspective. 

Sell it. I've had cars like that and kept them, later (and currently) wishing I'd sold. Without using them much, things like tires, belts, coolant changes, batteries, still require spending money on them and as you noted the increase in value may not even keep up with all the costs.

NOT A TA said:

Sell it. I've had cars like that and kept them, later (and currently) wishing I'd sold. Without using them much, things like tires, belts, coolant changes, batteries, still require spending money on them and as you noted the increase in value may not even keep up with all the costs.

I've only had a couple things go wrong over the past 3 years: I got a bit of a sticky clutch pedal a couple years ago; bled the clutch line and it's been fine ever since... and for a while I kept getting a "tighten fuel cap" message when the cap was tight. I replaced the cap, but the message came back... I ended up replacing the fuel hose going from the tank to the cap and all was well afterwards. I've done all the deferred maintenance, unsure of what the previous owner(s) did and didn't skip, but you're right, even with a low mileage garage queen, things still go wrong. I feel like the longer a car sits, the faster things start to go wrong. 

The current market prices for the Honda S2000 is unbelievable. 

roninsoldier83 said:

Has anyone on here ever bought a car they lusted after, just to eventually watch it sit in the garage? Did you sell it? Any regrets, one way or another? Thoughts?

My Elise was the exact same situation. Too fragile, appreciating too much, and I had a turbo miata in the garage that was more or less disposable, so it got driven 4x  as much. I sold the Elise, and while I regret it,  in my heart I know it was the right decision as it would have continued to collect dust, flat spot the tires, etc.

Also, sell me your EK, as long as it's a hatch

I drove a friend's AP1 S2000 for an evening, and it was one of a short list of cars that I consider "fizzy" so to speak, something with a lot of personality that gives you a feeling when you're driving it that it wants to be driven hard and used for fun. It's been a long time, but I remember the steering being pretty sharp despite an eyeball alignment, and the motor was especially fun for someone like me who likes high revving n/a cars. I would've purchased that particular car if I had the funds to do so. 

With that said, I kinda hate the idea of owning an investment car that I couldn't  enjoy without feeling irresponsible, so for that reason alone, selling the car is worth considering. I would definitely drive the car a few days in a row in an environment that suits its personality: ie a smooth windy road with room to wind it out to 8k. See if the driving enjoyment isn't worth more than the car's monetary value.
 

S2000s are a kind of strange and special outlier to Honda's usual portfolio of mostly fwd cars, but they really are a unique experience to drive. I've never driven an NC but it sounds like you know what you're getting there. You could always sink metric tons of money into swapping an aggressively ported 13b into the NC if you missed the manic high rev nature of the Honda.. 

I think the general consensus is sell it. Hey if you get the itch for another S2000, there are some pretty sweet Hot Wheels versions out there.

Your fun car should be fun. I have had fun cars that were to nice or special to me for me to enjoy driving or messing with them. I personally enjoy the no worries part of a NC Miata

This thread hits close to home, having a highly capable car sitting idle for various reasons. I, too, came to the decision that I've changed enough that the car deserves to go to someone who'll use it as it was intended.

I swore I would never sell my 2004 Suzuka blue s2k that I bought brand new. Then I found a 991 Carrera and could not keep the s2k and buy the 911 which I always wanted so I sold it. Every day I regret selling it until I drive the 911. I would not sell unless there is something that you really want and can't afford without selling. Man I loved my s2k. 

The only car that I've ever owned that I regret selling was my Suzuka Blue AP2. It was 100% stock, and was essentially perfect. I'll never have a chance to own one like that again, and I kick myself for not keeping it.

If you need the cash out of it to buy something else, I get it, but before you sell spend some time thinking about how 5-years-older you will feel about the decision. 

A test pipe or HFC and a tune lets you lower vtec significantly so the party zone is more accessible on the street. Reversible-resellable mods--worth a shot to see if it's enough to make polite motoring more enjoyable before moving on.

Tracking the s2000 would be costlier with insurance, but being able to wind a car out to 8k for extended periods of time is cathartic. But then there's the roll hoop/bar concerns where some orgs/tracks wouldn't even let you drive the NC without a rollbar.

I'm in the keep, mod and enjoy camp. That was the original plan right? It sounds like you're well off enough that the 'profit' or opportunity cost of owning the s2000 realistically won't make a difference.

Sell and Don't look back. 

I sold my E30 M3 just before they became valuable, replaced it with a Fox chassis Mustang, sold that as values increased not have an S197 Mustang.   I regret that I don't have a $90k car to sell right now but don't regret replacing it with replaceable cars that are fun to modify.   Once my current Mustang gets too valuable if ever I'll probably replace it also.

I have two questions that I apply to my cars: 1) Is it useful? 2) Is it special? I had an AP2 (2006) S2000 that I used as my daily car for 2 years. It was both useful and (somewhat) special. I never really connected with it, so I sold it when I had a chance to buy an Elise. Now I have the Elise (very special) and a Honda Ridgeline (very useful). I do miss the S2000 sometimes because it had a nice balance between useful and special. I think the NC Miata has a similar balance but is biased more toward useful and less toward special. Sometimes, being less special is a good thing... it gives you 'permission' to use it more, especially if special = more valuable. In contrast, I may only drive the Elise 3-4 times a month but it's special enough to be worth keeping.

As CLH mentioned, the other question is to think forward 5 or 10 years. Will the car be useful/special in the future? The only car that sat in my garage that I regret selling is a '66 BMW 1800ti. At the time it made sense to sell it and all the parts I'd accumulated but I wish I'd kept the car and sold off the parts. I didn't realize that, in time, it would become more special (at least to me).

Good luck with your decision. 

I was in the same boat with my E28 M5. It sat the last three years I owned it and I put less than 300 miles on it that last year and even that was pretty much forced. Mostly because they went up in value. It sold in late 2020 on cars and bids for just under 20k. Do I sometimes wish I had held onto it for 12 months and likely got double the money? Sometimes, sure, but it was time for it to go. I took hundreds of pictures and many videos of it for the memories and Im glad it went to a guy that had an e28 535is and an e34 M5 in new mexico where it will never rust more than it already had. I have not once wished I had the car back since it sold, and I loved the car. I wasn't glad to see it go but wasn't sad either.