I No Longer Wish To Make Cars Fast.

So I came to the realization that I no longer wish to build a fast car.

I still want to make them fast"er" but only to a point.

Keeping the Datsun vintage legal is more important to me than making it fast. There is a simple way to make it fast but then that spoils what the car is.

On the note of spoiling what the car is. My plan for the Foxbody is to simply make it into what someone would have done back on the day. The only thing that's really left is the motor. The car is running so we shall be driving it in the current 240hp form. I may bolt on some better heads and an intake which will take it to about 275hp.

I promised my wife I'd stay out of single seat cars so that was my usual solution to a fast car. 

Newer cars are so fast now that it seems pointless to try and build something fast. I also don't like newer cars; they are so good that I find them boring after about 4-5 laps. They're almost effortless relative to the older cars I enjoy.

It's crazy but I like working twice as hard for half the speed.

Tom, the first step in curing this problem is admitting it is a problem. However, I don't know if there is a 12 step program to address "I No Longer Wish To Make Cars Fast"

In reply to Tom1200 :

Everything that you said.
I am with you, my friend. 

Many years ago I realized that I would never be able to build and use a car that was really fast. Instead began to take joy in simply being able to make a car nearly from scratch 

In reply to L5wolvesf :

I'd much rather see if we can make a Fiat 850 engine turn 11,000 rpm than fit a turbo Hayabusa motor in it.

I hear that the cool kids call it OEM+.

David S. Wallens said:

I hear that the cool kids call it OEM+.

Whether it's my old BMX bike or the Datsun I really like having the "back in the day" parts on it.

Of course I seem to be the resident vintage stalwart here.

I'm breaking the internet bro-code by being honest.  I'd likely be the limiting factor on track with these modern high horsepower cars.  It would be much more cost effective to work on my abilities rather than spend 60-150 grand on a car that would use its computers, sensors, horsepower, grip, and brakes to mask my shortcomings.

Me, driving my E30 race car as hard as I can:  I think I'm ready for a faster car.

Me:  Buys M3. Puts it into the wall first time out.

Okay...so more power apparently wasn't the answer. 

I don't race anymore, but building my first 'hot rod' for the street I've had to curb my original plans for ULTIMATE RESTOMOD, realizing that a whole lot of what I *thought* I should do is wholly unnecessary to winding up with a fun car. What I really want is a balanced car, with a good combination of power, handling, braking and comfort that I won't hate driving for more than an hour at a time. The great thing about accepting that is, I can save a boatload of money by not buying 'performance bling' that I'd never really use. It's tough accepting that you really don't need those 17" wheels when 15"s will look better and be 'good enough' for the handful of autocrosses it will probably see under my ownership. Ditto the big brakes and tubular control arms. Instead, I'm maximizing what the factory gave or can update to easily, and see how that works before going full retard on very expensive parts. It's actually fun doing it this way.

Coniglio Rampante said:

I'm breaking the internet bro-code by being honest.  I'd likely be the limiting factor on track with these modern high horsepower cars.  It would be much more cost effective to work on my abilities rather than spend 60-150 grand on a car that would use its computers, sensors, horsepower, grip, and brakes to mask my shortcomings.

The driver is the limiting factor on the track in all cars.  But it can be very satisfying to wring 99% of the performance out of a car with accessible limits compared to getting 78% of the available performance out of a supercar. I learned a long time ago that fun and outright speed are not correlated. 

I'm 100% with you, there was a time when an 05 STI wasn't capable enough off the lot and I needed to do a factory location gt30 center section turbo swap with a billet compressor wheel and V mount intercooler setup. Now 330ish hp is not only more than enough, but I actively don't want more. 

What I want more of is directness. Solid mounts, lightweight single mass flywheels, power steering deletes, I'm indifferent towards abs in a fun car that's not dailied. 

We've reached the day and age where an early to mid 90s car is in fact vintage. And it doesn't need more upon more, we're reached a point where it's less is more. 

Now excuse me as I have a 69 targa 911 barn find that I need to source a mildly appropriate engine for. 

I'm on board ! I may be one of the slowest vehicles at the  track night ,2001 tacoma but smiling and taping my feet all the way home . New engine on the way to replace my 260K run hard and put away wet motor . New motor will make about 260 to 275 hp but built for 500. Should be a hoot in the spring!

ddavidv said:

Me, driving my E30 race car as hard as I can:  I think I'm ready for a faster car.

Me:  Buys M3. Puts it into the wall first time out.

Okay...so more power apparently wasn't the answer. 

Me, lifelong 125 guy, racing my Husky CR150 balls to the wall trying to run up front. All I need is more power, I have the rest figured out.

Me: Buys Husky WR300. Think I'm going to die as the second turn comes up so fast I don't think there's any way I can make it.

Me: Makes turn, puts WR300 up for sale the next day

Okay...so more power apparently wasn't the answer.

I'm in the slow car fast group, and I do the same on bikes. It was silly thinking I wanted more power. Most of the fun is the feeling of running balls to the wall, thinking you're faster than you actually are. How incredibly boring it must be riding a 450 around the entire track in third gear.

I had my most automotive fun under or near 100hp.  And I'm taking my latest bike build to the extreme, even by my standards.

Having raced everything that I could get myself on or in since the age of 8 and constantly feeling the need for competition, I've long since outgrown it. Cars, bikes, quads, jetskis, karts and more and countless houses worth of $$$ spent, I no longer feel that need for speed. I still enjoy building "stuff", but the quest to go faster and faster has diminished with age and wisdom. There are still race cars around and projects galore in the shop and warehouse, but when I look at them I don't think of ways to make them faster, but now it's a matter of more reliability and quality of finishes. My latest acquisition is a Factory Five Cobra replica. It might have 250 rwhp and to date I don't think I've driven it faster than 70mph. I could have easily bolted aluminum heads on it, a n aluminum flywheel, cam, bigger injectors and a more aggressive tune. Instead, I spent 2 days doing paint correction, ceramic coating and a full detailing. After that it was finding the right wheels and setting the ride height for the right "look". It starts, runs, accelerates just fine to go for a country ride of ice cream run, so there's absolutely no reason to try to make it faster since it's just an occasional driver. No track duty, so reliability is on top of the list unlike how most people build these things. Same with the vintage race car. It's a mere 100hp, so time will be better spent on handling than HP, since 50 year old British motors aren't exactly the most robust pieces to squeeze more RPM out of. Not so years ago when we switched from 5-main MGB motors to 3-main because you could spin them higher. They would last 2 weekends before needing a rebuild which got old really quick. I could build them "in my sleep" but was it worth it? Back then I would say yes, but now, not a chance. I'll try to find the time somewhere else on track and if not, it's not like we were getting rich or famous racing for that little plastic trophy. 
 

Times and priorities chance over the years as I got older. I like cars, but I also like spending time on my mower or skidsteer here at the house. Weekends are spent with my better half and dog now and it's more rewarding than sitting under a canopy at the track. 
 

Getting older isn't what it was all cracked up to be, but no complaints, just slowing down and shifting priorities. It seems to apply to everything in life.

I just like making cars do something they weren't meant to do. Surprising people that "X" is doing "Y" and doing it well. Doesn't have to be "fast". Just use it's potential. I'd rather get 95% out of a slow car than 50% of a fast car because I can't make myself push it. 

My brain is just wired to enjoy driving with the right pedal all the way down as much as possible.  Discovered it at an early age but still ventured into the "too much power for me" world several times.  Some of the best racing in my life was when my PCA group track junkies used to rent a local go kart track in the winter.  Wednesday night, an hour of racing in electric karts.  Every 10 minutes we would pit and swap into freshly charged rides.  I was a rookie but got wheel time with some of the best drivers.  Very interesting to see which ones were still fast and which ones had no idea how to drive fast without mega power.

I've driven some stupid fast cars.

The most fun cars I've driven are a Mk1 AH Sprite and my 1919 Model T.

My motorcycle is perfect and it's a "day 2" bike. A 1980 Moto Guzzi LeMans 2 with LM1 body work and the factory race kit. It's a fast bike for 1980 but there's production bikes now that will send you to jail in second gear. I don't need those. 

I'll be the against the grain opinion here.  I'm good with a really fast car.  Don't misunderstand me, I'm not implying we should all have cars with 1200hp that weigh 1800lbs.  However I disagree with only being able to get 50% performance out of a modern car.  I am a very far cry from a world class driver, yet I would take a C8 over a C5 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.  I can push it well beyond half of its ability, easily.  Remember, there's only so much grip available.  I'm happy to be on a racetrack no matter what I'm driving.  However given the choice between a 90hp Fiat and a new Mustang, for me it's a no brainer to take the Mustang.

After tracking a sport bike (and wrecking it on track), I'm more concerned with safety and reliability (although I do kind of wish I had taken my '13 Mustang GT Track Pack out for a few sessions). 

My local track, Hallett. Running the "normal" direction, counter-clockwise, in my dying 1.6 Miata I would hit turn 1 around 90 mph, literally just lift throw it in and back on the gas around the apex. If you didn't have the curb under the drive seat, you didn't take enough. 

On my R6, I was hitting the braking zone for Turn 1 around 126-128. 

I'd love to take the BRZ out, but even with track insurance, I'm hesitant to take something to the track I'm making payments on. But I know it would be quick there. 

Sorry, started rambling a bit. 

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

I'll be the against the grain opinion here.  I'm good with a really fast car.  Don't misunderstand me, I'm not implying we should all have cars with 1200hp that weigh 1800lbs.  However I disagree with only being able to get 50% performance out of a modern car.  I am a very far cry from a world class driver, yet I would take a C8 over a C5 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.  I can push it well beyond half of its ability, easily.  Remember, there's only so much grip available.  I'm happy to be on a racetrack no matter what I'm driving.  However given the choice between a 90hp Fiat and a new Mustang, for me it's a no brainer to take the Mustang.

Getting to drive the Cayman GT4 RS at Exotic Racing in Vegas was an absolute revelation. I just need the winning lottery ticket. I didn't care for the Huracan (although the noise was lovely) and the 488 Pista had absolutely insane top pull everywhere hitting 130+ on the front straight. 

But it was the Cayman I was like, "Yes, this is how a car is supposed to drive."

I can make any car slow just by driving it.

Well, the fundamental thing about going really fast is that you have to accept what will happen when things go wrong. Therefore, although I have a really fast Mercedes, I love the car too much to push it to its limits. And I will no longer push a motorcycle to more than 75 percent for fear of what would happen to my body if I took a serious off.

But I'm not ready to give up on 10/10 driving seriously fast cars. I just don't have one that currently runs 

Oh hey, it's the "slow car fast" discussion again with a different hat on :)

On the street, it's fun to drive a slow car. I am very much enjoying the stock 1990 Miata and I had a good time yesterday in the 1985 CRX (granted, it's the big power Si model with very nearly triple digit horsepower). I think that's because our daily driver has ridiculous power and going fast on the street is mostly just about how stupid you want to be.

On the track, though, I still like a fast car. Gives me more options, more things to play with. It's fun getting punched forward when I hit the next gear. I'm not looking to build a new one right now but there's no way I'm getting rid of the 500 hp 2300 lb Miata anytime soon.

If you broke just say so

Keith Tanner said:

Oh hey, it's the "slow car fast" discussion again with a different hat on :)

Mmmm no. It may have gone that way but that wasn't the point.

I get to drive 600-800hp all the time and as I said after a few laps I find them boring because:

1. Even the most basic of single seat race cars will pull 2G in a corner. A mid level single seater will pull 3Gs on the brakes. You won't get that in a road car. If I am going drive something superb I want a sub 1500lb car. 

2. Modern cars have become so flawless and so you don't need to drive around them. 

The truth is I like flawed cars and I especially  like them if they are on skinny tires.