I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs.

Opti said:

frenchyd said:

Opti said:

In reply to Toyman! :

Private sector coming in clutch with solution, while government solutions fail gloriously

     Oversimplification. Maybe the price was so high because elected officials were bribed. 
     Maybe the person in charge was elected because people liked to drink a beer with him and he told them what they wanted to hear.  
      Maybe it was selected by a committee. ( a camel is a horse designed by a committee) 

     Was it Benjamin Franklin who said. "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms". 

Frenchy you are making my case for me, you just listed a bunch of reasons why our government solutions suck. Sounds like a bunch of problems inherent to our current process for government solutions. What I said stands. Government solution fails spectacularly, for the exact reasons it was expected to.

Well if you expect government to be perfect, it happens almost as much as private industry  is successful.  50% of new businesses fail inside of 5 years. 
  Actually if you look closely Government is slightly more successful.  In part because of the different political parties.   To pass something usually has to get past a split Congress or Senate.   
  That's  exactly why it tends to work  more than it tends to fail.   But it's also why it's less effective than it could be.   And why there is waste in government. 
     My favorite example of a successful business is Boeing.  Boeing made the B17   That basically helped win WW2  but they also made the B29  that by any objective was a complete waste.  It was more expensive than the Manhattan project  ( A Bomb)  total failure at high altitude bombing. ( it's original purpose)   The main wing spar failed frequently. Engines frequently over heated seldom lasted even 100 hours. FIt didn't become effective until  low altitude bombing  was ordered by General Curtis LeMay 

 Skip ahead to today and look at  the problems they are going through now.   I mean a whole type of airplane (737 ) was grounded because they cheated. 
   In fact not all of their current line is a success. 
    Do you want to discuss GM or Ford?  How about General Electric ?

 I know it's a common thing to complain about the government.   Big business wants a small government so they can cheat and break rules without a problem.  But the population needs a big government so you don't need to spend a 1/2 a day on hold trying to get an answer.  Plus 320 million people in this country and most want different things from the government.  In broad terms 50% want this and 50% want that.       

Opti said:

In reply to Toyman! :

Private sector coming in clutch with a viable solution, while government solutions fail gloriously

It's probably a safe assumption that a 40 foot bus and a fancy golf cart are solving two different problems. 

Opti said:

In reply to Toyman! :

Private sector coming in clutch with a viable solution, while government solutions fail gloriously

If we are going for private sector solutions, I like this one better.

High-Speed Passenger Train: Buy Tickets Today | Brightline (gobrightline.com)

They already have a running operation in Florida. They are planning to build another one from Las Vegas to Southern California. It will be interesting to see if they can make high speed rail work in California.

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

Opti said:

In reply to Toyman! :

Private sector coming in clutch with a viable solution, while government solutions fail gloriously

It's probably a safe assumption that a 40 foot bus and a fancy golf cart are solving two different problems. 

Couldn't they just whack the back end of the bus off and make more runs? That would be the GRM solution.

frenchyd said:

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

OK I'll go back and find details for you. 

Sorry it's taken me a while to find some of the sources. 
   The first one was  about 3 weeks ago when I heard Sandy Munro ( the guy who takes apart cars for auto companies and reports on the good and bad,  each car has). 
 It's on Electrify TV  pod cast   Covering the electrify Expo 

   That's when I really started to dig into batteries and solar panels. 
  The one about solar panels I haven't found yet.   But it was where I learned about improvements like previously panels were considered good at 18% conversion and now the standard is 22% where high quality panels not only gave a 30 year guarantee they also showed degradation in 30 years  from a high of only a 12% to a low of 18%  but the one with the highest amount of degradation also had the least effect of high temps. 
     None of them listed prices. The introduction  talked about 50%  reduction in costs.  They did however talk models and numbers. 
 I'll keep looking for you. 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Opti said:

In reply to Toyman! :

Private sector coming in clutch with a viable solution, while government solutions fail gloriously

If we are going for private sector solutions, I like this one better.

High-Speed Passenger Train: Buy Tickets Today | Brightline (gobrightline.com)

They already have a running operation in Florida. They are planning to build another one from Las Vegas to Southern California. It will be interesting to see if they can make high speed rail work in California.

I expect to see high speed rail a success.  It is in Europe and Japan. ( a 9 Trillion  dollar failure in China) 

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Toyman! :

That sounds like a problem with you city more than the tech. Buses of the same size are to fit in the same areas regardless of power source so. As far as range both manufacturers we tested, New Flyer and Proterra gave us somewhat conservative estimates. We've had New Flyers for several years now and they've worked better than I would have expected. 

100% agree. 

This is a case of the guy in charge stepping on his thang. Unfortunately, it will set back the electrification of the bus system for years if not a decade or more. What should have been a step toward getting the stinking diesel buses out of downtown turned into a publicity fiasco. It will be front page news every time electric vehicles and CARTA are mentioned at the same time for a long time. 

I can't think of a better use for electrified vehicles than buses and delivery vehicles. A bus or delivery vehicle runs a known and frequently short route. Runs a stop-and-go route with lots of regenerative braking. Buying the right tool should be as simple as answering a few engineering questions. I would bet that 75+% of the school buses could be electrified as well. 

frenchyd said:

bobzilla said:

Ctrl+c and ctrl+v is soooooooo hard. Like impossible to master (when asked to back up your wild ass claims). 

I know you're telling me how easy it is.  But you are telling a 75 year old Geezer in a foreign language. 
      My grand parents were born in the 1880's   By the time they got a TV  it was network channels and rabbit ears.    
      They liked to watch Lawrence Welch  on channel 11.  We put the TV on that channel  and adjusted the Rabbit ears to that channel for them.  
   Later when Ponderosa was on we went over to their house selected channel 4  and changed the rabbit ears. So they could watch that.  They gave up on watching Larwance Welch.  Until I finally got my license and a Honda 150 dream  to go over and change the TV for them. 
     After about 20 trips they finally  understood. 
  It was so easy for me,  I was doing it from age 5. 

Calling BS on this one too. 

My mother is 84, my father is 85. Both were born before 1940. They both grew up on farms without electricity. Slopping pigs, planting, weeding with hoes, splitting wood for heat during the winter. Literally in the middle of nowhere South Carolina. 

They both have iPhones, both know how to text, email, copy, paste, and keep up with the modern world. My father loves to play computer card games. While they may not be on the cutting edge of tech, they aren't Luddites either. 

As my mother says, you are only as old as you act. Don't grow up too fast. Embrace the entire modern world, not just the solar parts of it. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Here is the difference frenchy when the government solution fails we all foot the bill. In theory when a private sector solution fails, only willing participants (investors and consumers) foot the bill. I will grant you that isnt always true with the terrible blending of government and large corporations weve seen over the last few decades, as Ive said before we dont have capitalism we have corporate socialism.

In reply to Toyman! :

That's a common problem throughout the country.  Few people want to run a system because it's a no win job. Meaningful changes don't normally make catchy headlines, so politicians demand flashy but often useless or poorly implemented projects while the agencies are a constant target for both sides of the aisle as not profitable or not providing enough service. 
 

We have a revolving door at the top of our agency as governors whims change. It really inhibits a lot of progress. 

In reply to Toyman! :

So they were born 10 years before me?  So how many foreign languages do they speak fluently?  
    If like most older people it's very hard to learn new languages.  Computers very much are a foreign language.  
  Yes I will grant there at exceptions.  My wife went back to college at age 42 and learned computers. 
  But I took French on High school, college and even some post grad courses.  Today because I don't use French  can barely speak even a few words. 
     Most of you have seen me struggle to understand  EFI   I read , studied and asked a lot of seemingly stupid questions. I've been tuning cars for 60 years. Yet until I joined GRM ) (and actually several years after ) EFI was a complete mystery.  Oh, I could plug in and read the code, figure out what part to replace, but it was all monkey see monkey do.  Rely on OBD2.  I didn't understand it enough to know what to do if I wanted a certain outcome.   Like I did with my distributor machine or  exhaust gas analyzer. I even understand mechanical fuel fuel injection ( Hilborn , Corvette , etc. ) 

     We

In reply to frenchyd :

BS again. 

You act like you know everything about solar and EVs so you at least think you have the ability to learn.

Learning to use a computer is no different than learning any other subject and PCs have been pretty common since you were in your 30s. No new languages are required. If you can navigate a website, you can copy and paste. 

Jerk the other hook, it's baited too. 

Opti said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Here is the difference frenchy when the government solution fails we all foot the bill. In theory when a private sector solution fails, only willing participants (investors and consumers) foot the bill. I will grant you that isnt always true with the terrible blending of government and large corporations weve seen over the last few decades, as Ive said before we dont have capitalism we have corporate socialism.

Failure really isn't a complete loss. At least we learn how it won't work.  
     When the city of Minneapolis went from electric trolley to diesel buses  there was a lot of bribery and special interest involved.  
 So no Government isn't always perfect.  But it works better here than in China. Or Russia, or North  Korea.  
  But the Scandinavian countries seem very happy with their government compared to us.   I wonder why that is?  They pay a lot more taxes than we do? 

frenchyd said:

          
      But the simple truth is I don't know how and so far no one has given me a reason to bother learning how. 

If you can't bring the facts to back up the BS, don't expect anyone to think you spout anything but made-up BS. 

Do you at least know how to use Google? Try it. It might save us from reading some of your more outrageous supposed facts. 

My Father is 85 and legally blind.  He can copy and paste a link, so can you. You don't want to.

In reply to frenchyd :

You know, my parents taught me to respect my elders. Sadly, you make that very difficult to do.  

The thing about made-up facts is there is no reason to look for them. The only place they exist is in your mind and searching there would just be depressing, wouldn't it? The best part of your posting here is knowing your posts are full of BS so I can just skim what your write and know that the truth is probably elsewhere to be found. Sifting the small truths from your fountain of BS is not something I'm going to do. I'll just look elsewhere for actual information.  

You really missed your calling. Your skills are lost driving a bus. You should consider getting into the news business, you would make a great reporter for the National Enquirer or a similar rag paper.

Did you ever decide which EV you were going to tell us you drive?

OK, time for me to move on. I'm starting to feel like I'm kicking a puppy. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Sorry it's taken me a while to find some of the sources. 
   The first one was  about 3 weeks ago when I heard Sandy Munro ( the guy who takes apart cars for auto companies and reports on the good and bad,  each car has). 
 It's on Electrify TV  pod cast   Covering the electrify Expo 

   That's when I really started to dig into batteries and solar panels. 
  The one about solar panels I haven't found yet.   But it was where I learned about improvements like previously panels were considered good at 18% conversion and now the standard is 22% where high quality panels not only gave a 30 year guarantee they also showed degradation in 30 years  from a high of only a 12% to a low of 18%  but the one with the highest amount of degradation also had the least effect of high temps. 
     None of them listed prices. The introduction  talked about 50%  reduction in costs.  They did however talk models and numbers. 
 I'll keep looking for you. 

I've been to a lot of solar expos and met with lots of manufacturers to talk about up and coming products. I've learned to ignore the hype until the product is actually for sale. Let me know if you find the manufacturer or part numbers. I have a meeting with my solar group next week. 
 

One thing as just an FYI to everyone about solar warranties. They are mostly worthless long term. The odds that any manufacturer will be around to back up their warranty in 20 years is almost non existent. Buy a quality module that is less likely to need the warranty rather than a cheap one that will leave you hanging when the module fails and the manufacture is long gone. 

 

Steve_Jones said:

My Father is 85 and legally blind.  He can copy and paste a link, so can you. You don't want to.

This. 1000000% this. And why not? Because there are zero links to support any of the bs he's spouted for the last 40 pages. None. 

Toyman! said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You know, my parents taught me to respect my elders. Sadly, you make that very difficult to do.  

The thing about made-up facts is there is no reason to look for them. The only place they exist is in your mind and searching there would just be depressing, wouldn't it? The best part of your posting here is knowing your posts are full of BS so I can just skim what your write and know that the truth is probably elsewhere to be found. Sifting the small truths from your fountain of BS is not something I'm going to do. I'll just look elsewhere for actual information.  

You really missed your calling. Your skills are lost driving a bus. You should consider getting into the news business, you would make a great reporter for the National Enquirer or a similar rag paper.

Did you ever decide which EV you were going to tell us you drive?

OK, time for me to move on. I'm starting to feel like I'm kicking a puppy. 

 

 

 

How many times have many of us broken down his bs posts with facts? Does no good. He just twists away, goes off on an unrelated tangent/rant and ignores it. Then repeats the same tired tropes and bs a few pages later. 
 

id have better luck teaching a rock how to be happy.... when neither of us even know what that is at times. 

bobzilla said:

Toyman! said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You know, my parents taught me to respect my elders. Sadly, you make that very difficult to do.  

The thing about made-up facts is there is no reason to look for them. The only place they exist is in your mind and searching there would just be depressing, wouldn't it? The best part of your posting here is knowing your posts are full of BS so I can just skim what your write and know that the truth is probably elsewhere to be found. Sifting the small truths from your fountain of BS is not something I'm going to do. I'll just look elsewhere for actual information.  

You really missed your calling. Your skills are lost driving a bus. You should consider getting into the news business, you would make a great reporter for the National Enquirer or a similar rag paper.

Did you ever decide which EV you were going to tell us you drive?

OK, time for me to move on. I'm starting to feel like I'm kicking a puppy. 

 

 

 

How many times have many of us broken down his bs posts with facts? Does no good. He just twists away, goes off on an unrelated tangent/rant and ignores it. Then repeats the same tired tropes and bs a few pages later. 
 

id have better luck teaching a rock how to be happy.... when neither of us even know what that is at times. 

Why does this bother you guys so much? Is it really your job to correct every wrong fact on the internet?

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

It's the fact that he's spouting the same, incorrect bs and shouting it with his typical arrogance. We've shown him multiple times it's wrong and he keeps using it in his incoherent rants. That's not a discussion about a topic. That's shouting your opponents down with the same tired lies over and over. 

bobzilla said:

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

It's the fact that he's spouting the same, incorrect bs and shouting it with his typical arrogance. We've shown him multiple times it's wrong and he keeps using it in his incoherent rants. 

OK. I guess some people find that entertaining.

Carry on.