bobzilla said:In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
I hear hail doesn't damage natural gas generators....
I don't think there are any perfect energy sources but all the solar propaganda in this thread is ridiculous. That particular facility was supposed to last 25 years. Nature took it out after 3 and solar has never been a great use of land. The power density is low per acre compared to other sources.
I want the Tom Carniegie to come in hear and say;
Itsssss a neeeeew page record!!
In reply to Tom1200 :
The meme thread would like to disagree. Please don't frenchy the facts.
70 is so passe, time to shoot for 80!!
A quick comment. Given the partnership/ rivalry between Ford and Tesla.
I believe the Tesla has a great chance to overthrow Fords long standing dominance of the F150 market.
Tesla's prime advantage is going into this battle with 60 billion in Cash compared to Fords over 100 billion in debt.
That plus manufacturing process
At a minimum Tesla saves on paint. While also having a much faster, less costly assembly process.
I have heard there is a 30-40% cancelation of orders for Fords Lightening. Since Ford raised the price of the base unit by almost $20,000 and the higher equipped trucks are near $100,000.
Assuming Tesla markets their truck under Fords perhaps some of the traditional buyers of Fords will purchase A Tesla instead?
I'll admit I haven't adjusted to the styling - Yet. But the stainless steel finish is a plus for me. My personal objection to how needlessly tall trucks are might persuade me to reconsider.
What are your thoughts?
In reply to frenchyd :
That's ridiculous.
I've spent my entire life working around truck owners, and I live in the South (where EVERYONE'S primary vehicle is a truck).
There is absolutely ZERO chance that truck buyers will EVER be interested in that horrible looking turd.
Ford is absolutely safe in the F150 market, and it makes no difference to them whether people buy electrics or not.
Musk has to first convince buyers that they want electrics, then convince them they don't need to do truck stuff with their trucks (like towing), then convince them his abomination isn't the ugliest vehicle on the planet, THEN attempt to challenge the market for the #1 selling vehicle in America for over 40 years.
Musk will be living on Mars WAAY before that happens. You are living in a fairy tale.
...oh, and before Musk can do ANY of that, he has to actually BUILD the truck!
There is a market that Musk could win with that truck. It's the young urban Cowboy that likes gadgets and WISHES they could get out in the woods occasionally, and likes being "trendy"
That's not the F150 market. That might be the Jeep market.
But it's a MUCH smaller market.
In reply to frenchyd :
This is satire right? Of all the things that are never going to happen, this is the neverest.
In reply to SV reX :
I can't see the urban cowboy set really going for it either. If you're going to cosplay do it right. They can sell $100,000 Fords and Chevys all day long but trying to put Lincoln or Caddy badges on them wouldn't work either.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
You may be right.
I wasn't really thinking of Lincoln pickups. I was picturing the gadget laden Jeeps that will never see anything more difficult to maneuver than bumping over a curb in the Publix parking lot.
In reply to frenchyd :
You do know that Ford has to file with the SEC every quarter right? So you know you can easily research their financials. It's a public record. Ford has about $39 Billion in cash too.
But I'm sure all your misinformed speculation about the truck market will influence all the truck shoppers.
10 is still > 1/3, but at least you are steadfast.
SV reX said:In reply to frenchyd :
That's ridiculous.
I've spent my entire life working around truck owners, and I live in the South (where EVERYONE'S primary vehicle is a truck).
There is absolutely ZERO chance that truck buyers will EVER be interested in that horrible looking turd.
Ford is absolutely safe in the F150 market, and it makes no difference to them whether people buy electrics or not.
Musk has to first convince buyers that they want electrics, then convince them they don't need to do truck stuff with their trucks (like towing), then convince them his abomination isn't the ugliest vehicle on the planet, THEN attempt to challenge the market for the #1 selling vehicle in America for over 40 years.
Musk will be living on Mars WAAY before that happens. You are living in a fairy tale.
You have some valid points. But Tesla has 1.2 million preorders with deposits already. Range towing is going to have to be seriously improved.
The really serious guys who tow heavy loads all day every day will probably stick with diesels. Until that range is greatly improved and recharge time is down to the 6 minutes so many mfg. are talking about.
The guy who hauls his fishing boat up North to the cottage on the lake might be a candidate though. That fishing boat probably is a lot lighter and won't push as much air as the garage used to haul race cars so Brainerd is 100 miles north and on a Friday evening it's 3-4 hour trip because of traffic.
Leave the house right after work arrive in Brainerd at 9:00-9:30 the kids and wife are screaming for diner. The Tesla chargers are in the Target parking lot. They have a decent restaurant there, clean bathrooms. Plus they probably forgot a few things so a little shopping is involved. A 1/2 hour later with the battery topped off. And they can then head to one of our 10,000+ lakes.
The boat is left up there and the trip back is easy non stop.
Winter it's time to bring the Ice fishing house up and while dragging a house pushes a lot of air but it can't be too heavy or it will go through the ice.
Fall hunting you just stick the guns etc. in the bed. They will offer a Electric tonneau to cover up the bed. Plus the tailgate has a ramp built into it if you want to bring a quad cycle.
If you don't like shiny, you've seen the ones with the Camouflaged vinyl haven't you? Or whatever color you want.
In reply to frenchyd :
No. They are ugly. It will NEVER happen.
In reply to SV reX :
1.2 million pre orders. Musk thinks it will out sell all Tesla cars combined ( except the model 2)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
You do know that Ford has to file with the SEC every quarter right? So you know you can easily research their financials. It's a public record. Ford has about $39 Billion in cash too.
But I'm sure all your misinformed speculation about the truck market will influence all the truck shoppers.
10 is still > 1/3, but at least you are steadfast.
Please read the part where they have debt. I have a mortgage on my house and cash in the bank.
They got Uncle Sam. to give them a 9.2 billion dollar loan to build a battery factory.
Another reason it will never happen... after-market customization.
Truck buyers LOVE to personalize their trucks. Lift kits, bumper guards, air ride, window drip shields, tool boxes, gun racks, stickers, hitches, brass balls, rolling coal, cup holders, running boards, bed covers, floor mats... there are thousands and thousands of options. It's a massive market, with ENORMOUS desire on the part of the consumers. The vast majority of trucks have been modified or personalized.
Part of the reason that industry works is the fact that truck design has remained largely unchanged for a really long time. After market companies can make very minor modifications to their products and sell the same thing to different mode years and brands. It's what truck owners want.
Absolutey ZERO of the after market products will work on a Tesla truck. With the unibody and the weird body shapes, almost nothing will fit. And truck owners won't be able to customize their trucks.
Of course new products can develop. But if I'm in the winch bumper manufacturing business, am I gonna choose to try to design something that will fit on a weird-ass truck that nobody wants, or for the #1 selling vehicle for over 40 years?
Its a total no-brainer.
Dumb idea.
SV reX said:There is a market that Musk could win with that truck. It's the young urban Cowboy that likes gadgets and WISHES they could get out in the woods occasionally, and likes being "trendy"
That's not the F150 market. That might be the Jeep market.
But it's a MUCH smaller market.
Rumor has it Ford sells an F150 EV called the lightening.
frenchyd said:In reply to SV reX :
1.2 million pre orders. Musk thinks it will out sell all Tesla cars combined ( except the model 2)
BS.
There are zero orders. You can't have an order for a truck that doesn't exist.
A pre-order is meaningless.
frenchyd said:SV reX said:There is a market that Musk could win with that truck. It's the young urban Cowboy that likes gadgets and WISHES they could get out in the woods occasionally, and likes being "trendy"
That's not the F150 market. That might be the Jeep market.
But it's a MUCH smaller market.
Rumor has it Ford sells an F150 EV called the lightening.
And doesn't have to.
bobzilla said:In reply to Tom1200 :
The meme thread would like to disagree. Please don't frenchy the facts.
The meme thread went more than 70 pages???
In reply to SV reX :
I might point out that Ford was the first manufacturer to make a deal to let their customers use Tesla superchargers.
And The Ford CEO says that Tesla is ahead of them on EV technology.
In reply to frenchyd :
It took $100 to preorder. I'm on the list still because I was too lazy to figure out how to get a refund. No intention of buying it, but if it somehow lived up to the hype I could sell my spot.
In reply to frenchyd :
There charging network is top notch, the rest of their stuff not so much.
In reply to frenchyd :
Come on, man. Don't be ridiculous.
Tesla has debt too. It's mostly equity financed instead of bank loans, but it's still debt. It is structured differently for repayment (which is a benefit), but it's still debt.
Too much equity financing can tank a business just as quickly as too much debt.
Tesla's entire financial model is dependent on people believing in Musk. Close your eyes, cross your fingers, and click your heels 3 times and say "There's no one like Musk. There's no one like Musk".
Ford's financial model is based on their actual revenues and profits, and their ability to make payments on the debt they have.
Tesla will be lucky if they ever ENTER the truck market, no less dominate it. Snowball's chance in Hell.
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