I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Seltos is that "sweet spot" in size for us. Fits the two dog cages, dogs and us where a Soul cannot. Gets better fuel economy than her old Rio SX auto and is quiet. 

In reply to bobzilla :

LOL, my wife doesn't like my Canyon "because it's noisy". The MINI and Miata have aftermarket exhausts, which she doesn't like. She'd like me to buy something new and quiet. For now, I just turn off my hearing aids and all is good.

I think Toyman had a point earlier when he mentioned we would need charging stations as frequent as gas stations before electrics will be fully accepted.

It's true that the math says this is probably not a need.  Every EV will start the day charged at home, so the frequency of stations is not an actual requirement. 
 

However, it IS a PERCEIVED requirement.  
 

The infrequency of charging stations contributes to the range anxiety.  Owners of ICE cars currently know that they don't have to think about gasoline. They can jump in their cars and travel around the country anywhere they want and they KNOW they will be able to find a gas station. It's a total non-issue.  But that's not the case for EV charging stations.

Most ICE owners have no idea where the charging stations are. They've seen a couple at hotels or the public library, but they don't see them regularly.  They aren't visible, and there are no signs on the interstates telling people which exits have charging available. There are no giant neon signs advertising today's charging price.   If there were charging stations on every corner like gas stations, there would be no range anxiety.

Charging stations are largely invisible to ICE owners. They have a lack of understanding of how to find them, what the ettiquette is, what the costs are, what the process is.  THIS is the cause of range anxiety, not the actual mileage the car can travel on a full charge.  

In reply to SV reX :

Your point is interesting but as long as range is less than the average ICE vehicle you'll need a lot of charging stations.  Time is another factor.  Since recharging takes longer you might need even more charging stations.  Ultimately tech could change the variables.  
 

Commute times are on the rise but working at home is as well.  If you are considering all of this, uncertainty is high.  The one known is that the current power generating and grid capacity aren't capable of achieving an ICE to EV transition.  Until that is addressed it's all just a dream.  

In reply to SV reX :

Agreed, range anxiety for most people is about perception.  And work.  It takes careful planning and the use of custom Apps to navigate travel away from someone's normal routine/route in today's low density charger arrangement.

In reply to SV reX :

My sister bought an electric Kia Soul in the spring. They live on an island off the coast of British Columbia and there is a charging station at their little strip mall, so she plugs in while grocery shopping or going to the restaurant. She needs enough range to get to the ferry and from the ferry to the town my mother lives in and return. She was going to go from her island to visit her daughter in the BC interior, a distance of about 260 miles. Had it all planned to stop at a particular charging center and have lunch before continuing. When the Fraser Valley got flooded badly the charging station was destroyed and she hasn't made the trip yet. Until more charging stations are built , they'll have to take the truck. For her everyday use the Soul is perfect, and she did mention how well it accelerates. This from someone who is not a car person.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

True.  I've got a buddy who's a truck driver.  He delivers fuel to gas stations.  For EV's to completely replace the ICE, all that energy delivery that currently is distributed by gas pipelines and then Semi trucks to stations MUST be replaced with the Grid build out and extra generation capacity 

The argument that we'll need as many, or more chargers than gas pumps is not really convincing. What is the utilization rate of a gas pump? I suspect it's not very high, and everyone must use a pump today to replenish their vehicles. In the future, after the grid capacity issues are addressed, we'll be leaving home full every morning and will only need public chargers to go further than the range of one charge. I have no doubt we will solve the range anxiety issues in a few years, not tomorrow, but soon. I was reading an article about Toyota working on solid state batteries with faster charging and more capacity just a couple of weeks ago. I only need to look back over the 46 years since I graduated from engineering school to realize the speed at which technology has advanced. Watch what the next 5-10 years bring.

bobzilla said:

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to bobzilla :

My local Kia dealer has a bunch of Niros priced at $30815, and the plug-in hybrid is just under $42,000. I'll seriously consider a regular Niro at $31K when I finally give up on my MINI. Even though I don't put a lot of mileage on any one vehicle, I do like getting twice the mileage for my dollar. Over 90% of our driving could be handled by a pure electric vehicle and the hybrid Niro could be the long range vehicle.

we were buying in December. There was a total of 1 Niro in a 150 mile range of us and it was $41k with a little bump from that dealer. The Seltos was $24k.

EDIT: just checked right now, Plugin niro there are 4 now, 1 at $37k, 3 at $41+k with the range set at 100+ miles.

Wife wanted an Ioniq 5, we were shopping around the same time. Building one the way she wanted was around 60K (limited trim and a couple of accessories), could only find the base model RWD (deal breaker for her) within 100 miles for about 60K. She bought a Jeep and says 25K buys a lot of gas.

You might be asking yourself "Indy, why did you post that image"

To which I'd reply, that's the emblem from a 96 ! Same as this page number 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

The argument that we'll need as many, or more chargers than gas pumps is not really convincing. What is the utilization rate of a gas pump? I suspect it's not very high, and everyone must use a pump today to replenish their vehicles. In the future, after the grid capacity issues are addressed, we'll be leaving home full every morning and will only need public chargers to go further than the range of one charge. I have no doubt we will solve the range anxiety issues in a few years, not tomorrow, but soon. I was reading an article about Toyota working on solid state batteries with faster charging and more capacity just a couple of weeks ago. I only need to look back over the 46 years since I graduated from engineering school to realize the speed at which technology has advanced. Watch what the next 5-10 years bring.

I wonder if utilization rates at gas stations would be different, if it took as much time to fill up your car with gas as it does with electrons. No way to quantify that, just a curious question. 

frenchyd said:

Indy - Guy said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

True.  I've got a buddy who's a truck driver.  He delivers fuel to gas stations.  For EV's to completely replace the ICE, all that energy delivery that currently is distributed by gas pipelines and then Semi trucks to stations MUST be replaced with the Grid build out and extra generation capacity 

Hence the push for solar.  If 50% of the roofs in this country had solar panels.   There would be no need to add to the grid.  

Yes, adding solar to rooftops will increase capacity during daylight hours.  But numerous times in this thread it's been stated "charge at night and leave for work in the morning with a full charge"

Solar doesn't work in the dark of night.  

So, to make solar viable, your house would ALSO have to have a huge battery to temporarily store the energy and then delivery it to the vehicle at night.  This doubles the cost and need for even more batteries.  The article linked above states batteries are the current holdup and large driver of increased costs.

In reply to z31maniac :

If going by the number of old-school gas stations closing in my area is anything to go by, utilization/sales are down.  I used to pass intersections with a gas station on 3 or 4 of the corners and today only one remains. 

I can see charging stations along hwy routes being more "destinations" that you don't mind spending some time at - like a Buc-ee's. In theory, it could revitalize the idea of the full-service rest area with multiple entertainment options for travelers to spend money on while waiting for their car to recharge. Personally, I travel often and pass by a lot of road-side attractions but rarely stop. But if I were forced to stop... Hmm... 

Long distance travel with an EV would likely require something of change in attitude. One would be forced to slow down a bit and take in the sights.  Of course, at this point we're at the "chicken-egg" stage: folks are leery of EV's because the infrastructure isn't in place; the infrastructure doesn't exist due to low demand. It will take time for those two factors to reconcile. 

In reply to frenchyd :

To match the cost of a 3 I could buy 2-3 forte gt's in the 30 years. Since we will 10-15 years per car being in the rust belt that's about as long as I am comfortable with long term.

You are assuming the math is charging a full charge every night and you are incorrect. The math, which is something you should look into some day, is figuring out how much energy is needed for the amount of miles driven. It has absolutely nothing to do with range. Much like I don't fill the car but once every couple weeks with gas, this is assuming the same with electric. Miles driven/energy used. No other comparison is valid. Remember we are trying to show how the electric car is going to "save us all money and we like money". 

And before you even berkeleying start with the god damn solar E36 M3 again, solar for my house is not feasible without removing trees, and it would barely cover the cost of the panel install/hookup so its not going to be "free car energy". Believe me, I've done the math on that every couple years since 2004.