I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs.

frenchyd said:

.......

they were comfortable and reliable.  ( except the one that burned to the ground ). 

Ummmm, Frenchyd, to most people that would exclude them from being classified as reliable.

Range anxiety isn't a perception in Nevada. I'm sure it's the same in a good deal of the West.

There are towns with one gas station and if you've been to any of them it's obvious they're not making a smokin profit. Note the reason they even have a gas station is they have people traveling through the towns on state routes.

What's cost to build a commercial Level 3 charger? Google says 30-80K............when does the ROI in that pen out in a town of 200 people.

From Austin Nevada to Fallon is 95 miles  (190 round trip)........you'd be able to recharge in Fallon.

From Austin Nevada to Gabbs is the same distance...............there is no gas in Gabbs so they're not going to put in a charging station either. If you are headed up to one of the mines  outside of town that's going to add 20-30 miles so you may well be right on top of the range. 

A Lightning is 220-230 mile range..................are you going to ride around with 10 miles to spare in the desert when it's 112 degrees out.  Probably not. Currently you'd drive 60-70 miles round trip out of your way to get to a charger. 

People make weekly trips between these places so it's not every once in a while.

What I find interesting is that people who've never traveled out this way are blown away by how far apart things are when the do come here.

In reply to frenchyd :

So, the grid needs no improvements because we can all use solar. But solar backfeeds to the grid (which won't have any upgrades).   And we can charge at night, but generate our electricity during the day and there won't be any need for storage capacity?

Do you see a problem with this?

Of course not...,

For the record, most EVs absolutely do NOT have enough range to drive out of a hurricane zone. Most ICE cars don't either, and part of the huge problem when there is a hurricane is running out of fuel.

How many EVs will have to run out of charge to block a highway with 100 miles of bumper to bumper traffic?  Not too many. 

In reply to SV reX :

Our cars have a range of 400-450 miles. 

Keeping in mind that not everyone does but I have the ability to bring along upwards of 10 gallons of gas (I could pump it out of the van or race car in about 10 minutes). As a family we have the ability to bug out for a week in about 20 minutes tops.

In reply to Tom1200 :

What's their range when they are standing still?  Was the car full when you decided to evacuate?

Bumper to bumper traffic is already a thing when evacuating a hurricane area.  Sometimes people sit for 8 or 10 hours without moving.  At least if a car runs out of fuel, someone can bring a gas can. That's not possible with an EV.

In reply to Tom1200 :

The vast distances and nothingness out your way I tried to bring up but someone seems to know more than you or I. I've been there, wondering if we will make it to that next little town and if that station will still be open. there are a lot of those little town gas stations that aren't 24hr stops.

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

So, the grid needs no improvements because we can all use solar. But solar back feeds to the grid (which won't have any upgrades).   And we can charge at night, but generate our electricity during the day and there won't be any need for storage capacity?

Do you see a problem with this?

Of course not...,

dude electricity is just magic. IT just is. 

In reply to bobzilla :

You're right. How silly of me. 

SV reX said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

.....At least if a car runs out of fuel, someone can bring a gas can. That's not possible with an EV.

False. It is possible. Just takes a bit of creativity and extra equipement

Indy - Guy said:

SV reX said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

.....At least if a car runs out of fuel, someone can bring a gas can. That's not possible with an EV.

False. It is possible. Just takes a bit of creativity and extra equipement

No energy transfer is 100%, but I can't help but to think that they would have gone a lot farther with an ICE hybrid than using a genny to put power back into the electric car. Transmission losses would be very un-economical.

EDIT: on that 110V gen that is 6 mi/ hr. That would have a consumption rate of about 1/2 gallon/hr on an older unit so that would be 12mpg? 

On the larger 240V gen, that's up to 16mi/hr and about a gallon per hour fuel rate. While it is POSSIBLE, its definitely not PRACTICAL.

SV reX said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

What's their range when they are standing still?  Was the car full when you decided to evacuate?

Bumper to bumper traffic is already a thing when evacuating a hurricane area.  Sometimes people sit for 8 or 10 hours without moving.  At least if a car runs out of fuel, someone can bring a gas can. That's not possible with an EV.

I can only speak for myself but when traffic comes to a halt like that I simply turn the car off.

My van has 10 gallons in it at all times, the race car has 5 and my wife never lets her car go below half. I'm bad and let mine get down to 3/8ths............but I've got a set up that allows me to pull fuel out of any one of the cars.

In reply to Tom1200 :

we aren't in hurricane area, but I make sure I have 15-20 gallons of fuel accessible for tornadoes, ice storms etc in the same manner. Truck is kept full (20+gallon), at least one of the fuel cans is always full(5 gal) and both cars at or above half(15 gallon tanks, 7-8 gallons each).

In reply to Tom1200 :

I like your preparedness. 
 

Unfortunately, everyone is not like that. A couple of dead EVs in the middle of the interstate will screw things up whether or not you are prepared. 

SV reX said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I like your preparedness. 
 

Unfortunately, everyone is not like that. A couple of dead EVs in the middle of the interstate will screw things up whether or not you are prepared. 

Which makes me wonder.... how easy are EV's to push when they are dead? An ICE you can pop it into nuetral and push it with minimal resistance. Is it like my mower that without power you have to push through the motors? Does the parking brake automatically set? I really don't know... was curious how that would work.

bobzilla said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

The vast distances and nothingness out your way I tried to bring up but someone seems to know more than you or I. I've been there, wondering if we will make it to that next little town and if that station will still be open. there are a lot of those little town gas stations that aren't 24hr stops.

It has to be experienced to believed.............we've routinely driven for 2 hours without seeing another car.  When a road gets washed out you might have to go 60-80 miles out of your way. We also have 24-36hrs worth of provisions on these trips.

I have a couple of friends who do these back roads regularly and they have one of those satellite alert systems because it could be a week or more before anyone drives down that 40 mile dirt road. Ironically one of them carries an electric bicycle.......I think it has a 40-50mile range.

bobzilla said:

Indy - Guy said:

SV reX said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

.....At least if a car runs out of fuel, someone can bring a gas can. That's not possible with an EV.

False. It is possible. Just takes a bit of creativity and extra equipement

No energy transfer is 100%, but I can't help but to think that they would have gone a lot farther with an ICE hybrid than using a genny to put power back into the electric car. Transmission losses would be very un-economical.

EDIT: on that 110V gen that is 6 mi/ hr. That would have a consumption rate of about 1/2 gallon/hr on an older unit so that would be 12mpg? 

 

On the larger 240V gen, that's up to 16mi/hr and about a gallon per hour fuel rate. While it is POSSIBLE, its definitely not PRACTICAL.

"While it is POSSIBLE, its definitely not PRACTICAL."

That was my point exactly.

bobzilla said:

SV reX said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I like your preparedness. 
 

Unfortunately, everyone is not like that. A couple of dead EVs in the middle of the interstate will screw things up whether or not you are prepared. 

Which makes me wonder.... how easy are EV's to push when they are dead? An ICE you can pop it into nuetral and push it with minimal resistance. Is it like my mower that without power you have to push through the motors? Does the parking brake automatically set? I really don't know... was curious how that would work.

I don't know that either, but I'm curious

SV reX said:

bobzilla said:

SV reX said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I like your preparedness. 
 

Unfortunately, everyone is not like that. A couple of dead EVs in the middle of the interstate will screw things up whether or not you are prepared. 

Which makes me wonder.... how easy are EV's to push when they are dead? An ICE you can pop it into nuetral and push it with minimal resistance. Is it like my mower that without power you have to push through the motors? Does the parking brake automatically set? I really don't know... was curious how that would work.

I don't know that either, but I'm curious

Paging Tuna or Keith to the red courtesy phone. Can you go push your cars for "science"?

frenchyd said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Indy - Guy said:

Tuna's case reinforces my own believe that house holds with 2+ vehicles are prime targets for the current expansion of EV's.  ICE for long range or high capacity travels, and the EV for shorter in town trips

 

Plug In Hybrids are the prime target for single vehicle households.

and EV's are prime for single vehicle households you don't travel on long vacations.

That makes more sense. To have a cheap electric hatchback for running around town and commuting, and a bigger more expensive gas powered vehicle for weekend trips and travel. But what we have right now are big expensive EVs stacking up on dealers lots that nobody wants to buy and that many can't even afford.

They are doing it wrong.

Those EV's stacking up in dealers lots?  
 Are you talking about Ford?  The Mustang Mach E?   
    I understand , they offered it at too high a price to even meet the requirements for IRS rebate.    Plus the recharging  network Ford was using  had a reputation for horrible reliability. 
Same thing with the F150 lightening. 

I'm talking about General Motors and Ford and Hyundai and Toyota.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/slow-selling-evs-are-auto-industrys-new-headache-2023-07-11/

And Tesla is cutting prices. Companies do that when demand goes down. It's basic economics.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cuts-us-prices-ahead-earnings-report-2023-04-19/

Elon is going for market share and it looks like he has cornered the market in chargers. He may be the smartest of the bunch.

In reply to Tom1200 :

What's cost to build a commercial Level 3 charger? Google says 30-80K............when does the ROI in that pen out in a town of 200 people.
 

The charger alone is usually over $100k- sometimes we'll over. The software is multiple thousands per year. Add installation costs, switchgear, pipe and wire- you can easily get to over $200k each. 

I understand Tesla chargers are less expensive, but I think that is largely a numbers game. They produce them for themselves and take the subsidies directly, so I'm not sure how a Tesla project and a non Tesla project compare overall. I also expect that to change drastically as they open up their network to non Teslas. 

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Wow.......that sorts of locks in that none of these small towns will be making those kind of investments despite being in a travel corridor.   While we get 40,000 cars between SoCal and here the amount of cars between Vegas and Reno is very small in comparison and from places like eastern Utah to central Nevada is probably miniscule.

In reply to bobzilla :

OOOH this could be a new event........push races.  We'll get owners of ICE cars and owners of EVs and see who can push their car to the shoulder in the shortest amount of time.

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

What's cost to build a commercial Level 3 charger? Google says 30-80K............when does the ROI in that pen out in a town of 200 people.
 

The charger alone is usually over $100k- sometimes we'll over. The software is multiple thousands per year. Add installation costs, switchgear, pipe and wire- you can easily get to over $200k each. 

I understand Tesla chargers are less expensive, but I think that is largely a numbers game. They produce them for themselves and take the subsidies directly, so I'm not sure how a Tesla project and a non Tesla project compare overall. I also expect that to change drastically as they open up their network to non Teslas. 

How's that going to work for Tesla to open up it's chargers to others (i.e. Ford)?  Do they have the same plug geometry? How about software interface?  Will actual Tesla owners be pushed out as demand goes up? 

Certainly this is a new revenue stream for Tesla.