I want an E30, and I blame you.

yeah, they're terrible. give me a call so i can save you from them.

Javelin wrote: My problem with the (now-appreciating) E30, is that the (still-depreciating) E36 exists. Kinda like the 924 vs 944 argument. When the superior-in-every-way car is the same price, there is no reason to settle for the lessor.

I've heard this argument about the E30 vs E36. Having driven both, and had to find ways around E36's on the track in my E30, I'd say at best they are equivalent to each other. The E30 benefits from better build quality, more simplicity, and a more connected feel. The E36 benefits from being lesser in age, evolutionary rather than revolutionary design, and a slightly less geeky appearance. If I'm buying a daily driver I'd probably swing for the E36 given the current depressed value and not having to replace quite as much worn out E36 M3 right off the bat. If I want a great track car that is more fun and faster than most people expect, the E30 wins. Neither is better than the other, but neither is a bad choice. Can't say that about the Porsches.

So how easy is an "easy" swap? And what engines would I need to look for? What cars would have said engines?

I'm looking for a car to be a fun beater, something to throw around these country roads, go grab some groceries in, etc.

Basically, I'm too attached to my Nissan to get rid of it, but I want something new. I really miss having a beater around the house, and I've always wanted a BMW. This seems to check all those slots.

A running e30 5 speed with only105k miles and available for under $1k with little negotiation would not still be listed 2 weeks after it first went up, around here.
The paint is rough and the interior may be too but I would go work over the seller to as low a price as possible. Drive it for a while with minimum re-investment and sell later. Should be able to recoup all invested if improvements are good but grm.

BoostedBrandon wrote: So how easy is an "easy" swap? And what engines would I need to look for? What cars would have said engines?

Any of the I6s from the E36 cars, M30B35s or the "big six" can also be done relatively easy.

My vote would be for an S52, with OBD-I intake, 3.5" MAF, good headers and tune. That got me an E30 with 235whp/225wtq.

Check the swap section on www.r3vlimited.com for more info.

BoostedBrandon wrote: So how easy is an "easy" swap? And what engines would I need to look for? What cars would have said engines? I'm looking for a car to be a fun beater, something to throw around these country roads, go grab some groceries in, etc. Basically, I'm too attached to my Nissan to get rid of it, but I want something new. I really miss having a beater around the house, and I've always wanted a BMW. This seems to check all those slots.

you never know. for what you plan to do, you may find the stock engine to be perfectly sufficient. even the "undesirable" ones like the ETA six cylinder or the M10 really aren't bad.

failboat wrote: are teh 325e's really THAT bad?

My E30 searches are always about a clean, rust free chassis since there are a wealth of cheap BMW motors that fit in the hole. It is nice if you can find a mechanically sound 325i or is but you can drop an S52, S50, M52, M50, M42 from the E36 pretty easily as well as any of the original motors.

The earlier commentary on the E36 being the better choice today is correct unless you have to have the look of the older BMW and the shorter wheelbase.

Having had 4 E30 and now driving an E36 M3, I would say the E30 is the ultimate in cheap track fun with the ability to be a daily driver. Parts are just freaking cheap, they last forever and for me, there's less of a tendency to want it to be perfect. My first one was an all-out track build and my last one had all the interior/street stuff, a decent stereo, 260k miles, and would still happily lap VIR in 103 degree heat without burning a drop of oil or overheating.

That said, there's a reason the E36 M3 is the E36 M3. It's better than the E30 at everything I've asked it to do, but it's also more expensive. I bought one at a time when I could have just bought the E46 M3, but I wanted to do an E36 and do it right. So, I went into it knowing I would spend some money.

Either way you go, you will find plenty of people tracking either chassis, and that means you will find plenty of aftermarket support. Same I think goes for the Porsches.

The iron block I6s make the E30 rather front heavy. A four cylinder is likely the best engine for an E30 (just find a 1991 318i/is), but you could also put an aluminum block I6 in one. A 3.0L OBD1 aluminum block M5x hybrid would be better, cheaper, and easier than an S52US swap.

BoostedBrandon wrote: So how easy is an "easy" swap? And what engines would I need to look for? What cars would have said engines?

As far as non-chassis/period correct swaps go, it's probably the easiest there is. The M5x engines drop in almost like they were designed to. If you go with an M50, then you gain a little bit of power, a much wider torque band and a newer/nicer engine. This swap has the fewest headaches and can be done extremely cheap (we're talking 500 for an engine/trans/ds, 20 minutes of soldering, and a few cheap odds and ends like E28 motor and E21 trans mounts). Then you just need an exhaust, and here you know you can either go real cheap or get into 4 figures... your choice.

If you go with the M52 family, esp the S52, then you can have a seriously competent sports car (with basic bolt-ons and a tune, it will creep towards 300hp and more torque than the revered Euro 3.2 - in an E30 this will mean a rather quick car, considering a stock S52 in an E36 resulted in 5.4s 0-60). This version of the swap has more things to solve, but still nothing especially difficult (eg you need the wiring, sensors and preferably intake from an M50, figure out how to add a 2nd coolant sensor, a few other things). It will also cost more but S52s can be found relatively cheap now (maybe 2k).

As for E30 vs E36, it's a complete wash. There are definitive sounding opinions both ways and performance to back it up - which means it's really all up to the car prep and driver skill. For instance, the fastest BMW by FAR in CASC GT Sprints is an E30 M3 with a worked S14. The only things faster are tube frame IMSA cars and a plastic Subaru with 600+ turbo whp (only on the straight bits). Nothing obscene either, just 235 Conti slicks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGyFcL1mIM

HStockSolo wrote: The iron block I6s make the E30 rather front heavy. A four cylinder is likely the best engine for an E30 (just find a 1991 318i/is), but you could also put an aluminum block I6 in one. A 3.0L OBD1 aluminum block M5x hybrid would be better, cheaper, and easier than an S52US swap.

I'm not sure where you get "Easier" from since the S52 is a drop-in and I would not bother to put a 3.0L aluminum motor in there with prices on the 3.4L S54 dropping into reach. It is also a drop in and if you have deep pockets it is also a plug and play. I am collecting the parts and working out the standalone setup required for the swap this winter (poor man's version). My CM E30 will be putting 400 to the wheels when I am all done.

An M52 is cheap and will take boost all day every day,or run S50 cams,headers and decent tune and make about 215 to the wheels.Thats what I have and its plenty fun,of course I'd like to add boost at some point for umm even more fun.