First i was thinking TLDR but then i read down the first page a bit and decided it was TPDR (preachy).
First i was thinking TLDR but then i read down the first page a bit and decided it was TPDR (preachy).
That's pretty unnecessary.
Maybe you should consider DRDC (comment).
Yeah well TLRUDKJIOWOOUUERHHLDYYAGEUIRUIHDHAKDJF32KJD#
dean1484 wrote: Anyway I hope they through the book at the driver. We really need much stiffer penalties for being stupid when driving.
nice thought... but can you visualize the reaction of the driver ... wide eyed disbelief .... WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME would be his reaction... wouldn't have a clue that he'd done anything wrong
wbjones wrote:dean1484 wrote: Anyway I hope they through the book at the driver. We really need much stiffer penalties for being stupid when driving.nice thought... but can you visualize the reaction of the driver ... wide eyed disbelief .... WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME would be his reaction... wouldn't have a clue that he'd done anything wrong
All the more reason to drop the big hammer.
Trailers are very scary, i recently saw a young girl towing a large horse trailer (as in it was longer than the truck by a bit) with a dually dodge ram, and she was sending a text message as she merged onto the freeway.
Another think everyone should remember while driving is how difficult it would be to see a car on its side, or a dark colored car stopped on an unlit freeway. I read somewhere about how many people have been in nasty accidents like that, and I know someone who probably would be dead if he hadnt grabbed the wheel while his girlfriend was driving and steered around a black SUV stopped on the slow lane on the freeway.
I'm sorry sv but how I read your description of the incident I see no reason to believe it happened for any reason other than the guy not paying attention. I can't see how towing a trailer had anything to do with it.
About 6 months ago, I was southbound on I95, just approaching the Dade county line. In my Ranger. 18 wheeler on my right. I knew that his lane was an exit only, so I backed off to allow him into my lane. As he came by me, I saw his right turn signal on, so I started to pass him. We were doing about 60mph. As I looked ahead, I saw that the exit lane was backed up onto the highway, and there was no way he could stop that beast in time. Which meant I was about to become squashed, as traffic was on my left. Slammed on my brakes just as he started to come over into my lane. His rear wheels just touched my right fender. If I had not been looking all over the place, been on my cell, or lighting a cigarette, it would have ended badly. Again, observant is better.
In reply to nicksta43:
"Paying attention" is essentially the same thing as being in control of your vehicle for the given conditions.
Part of that includes the load you are hauling.
Rain+ insufficient following distance+ trailer load+ speed= man dead. You could say that each one of those things are things the driver should have been paying attention to.
I hope you are not suggesting that there is NOT a huge risk towing a 2000+ lb trailer with no brakes on a wet road with a 1/2 ton truck wearing worn tires, are you? OK, he should have paid attention to every aspect. Which, of course, was my entire point.
And which is why I said it did not matter what the cause, it was his fault. Which is also why he's facing vehicular homicide charges.
In reply to SVreX:
According to a client of mine (who only works on huge cases with pretty much the best attorney in North Central FL) there has to be criminal intent. Basically if you were drunk, under the influence, knowingly deprived of sleep, or doing anything you knew might influence your driving ability you can be charged with homicide. If it was just an "accident" you can get a good attorney who will keep you out of trouble.
Perhaps.
Just relaying what was reported.
dean1484 wrote:wbjones wrote:All the more reason to drop the big hammer.dean1484 wrote: Anyway I hope they through the book at the driver. We really need much stiffer penalties for being stupid when driving.nice thought... but can you visualize the reaction of the driver ... wide eyed disbelief .... WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME would be his reaction... wouldn't have a clue that he'd done anything wrong
I'm in complete agreement ... was just making the point that few out there think there is any responsibility on their part for anything that they do or cause and can't understand why someone would even think of punishing them for it 
nicksta43 wrote: I'm sorry sv but how I read your description of the incident I see no reason to believe it happened for any reason other than the guy not paying attention. I can't see how towing a trailer had anything to do with it.
Assuming the trailer was not overloaded, it increased the weight of the vehicle by 75%. This would have increased the stopping distance (on dry roads) by nearly 4 times.
The tires were not new. If the coefficient of kinetic friction was .7 or .6 instead of .8 (new), there would have been an additional 25% or so in stopping distance.
Wet roads @ 55mph- add another 75% (assuming he didn't lock up or hydroplane).
So, if the standard stopping distance for a good condition C-10 on dry roads with an alert driver is 200', the stopping distances for the conditions were more like 1750'. That's nearly 6 football fields! 
Assuming, of course, he was paying attention. 
No one maintains that big a following distance.
I understand the physics of it. I'm just saying from your description the dude could have just as easily plowed into the ranger without ever hitting his brakes, which I've seen happen with or without a trailer. I drive alot of miles and many of those I'm towing with anything from a 1/2 ton truck and a utility trailer all the way up to the big truck I pull equipment with in excess of 32,000 lbs. gvw. And rain scares the crap out of me everytime, even with new and well maintained equipment. It deserves respect.
OK, explain the "don't turn your wheels at a stoplight until you are actually turning" thing.
Granted, I do it. But I'm curious over the emphasis of it. Seems as though if someone hits you HARD at an intersection, wheels turned or not, you are ending up in the middle of the intersection.
There is a difference between in the middle of the intersection and in the opposing lane of traffic. If your wheels are turned you will not be pushed in a straight line.
Yeah, Don nailed it.
If I wasn't clear, the semi hit him head on because he crossed the line into opposing traffic. It wasn't cross traffic.
Getting hit by cross traffic is always a possibility. Getting hit head on only happens if your wheels are turned.
Plus, if your wheels are turned, you are likely IN the intersection, not waiting for a light. There is no cross traffic if you have the right of way to be IN the intersection (like at a light).
In this case, it wasn't an "intersection" per se (traffic from 4 directions). It was a "Tee" (traffic from 3 directions). The road he was turning on to ended at the one he was turning off of. If he had had his wheels straight, there was no cross traffic.
Don49 wrote: There is a difference between in the middle of the intersection and in the opposing lane of traffic. If your wheels are turned you will not be pushed in a straight line.
When waiting to turn if you keep the wheels strait and you are hit you will be pushed with the flow of traffic. Wheels turned you are pushed into on comming traffic.
Excellent, thanks. I always keep my wheels straight, being pushed into head on traffic wasn't clicking with all the emphasis that was being put on it.
SVreX wrote: Perhaps. Just relaying what was reported.
I should correct myself-you can be charged with whatever law enforcement feels like charging you with. What they can make stick varies. In this attorneys case he got a girl off for a wreck where two people were killed because the prosecution couldn't prove "criminal intent" In a different case where people were killed by a Semi driver the best the attorney could manage was a less severe sentence because the driver was knowingly sleep deprived and asleep at the wheel. I am not at all approving any of this, just relaying my experiences. So if they can prove the driver of the vehicle with the trailer was knowingly doing something wrong he is likely in big trouble.
MrJoshua wrote: In reply to SVreX: According to a client of mine (who only works on huge cases with pretty much the best attorney in North Central FL) there has to be criminal intent. Basically if you were drunk, under the influence, knowingly deprived of sleep, or doing anything you knew might influence your driving ability you can be charged with homicide. If it was just an "accident" you can get a good attorney who will keep you out of trouble.
Hell, I've seen a drunk, unlicensed 20YO kill 2 and only get, IIRC, 4 months jail.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:poopshovel wrote: After 20 minutes of dumb Canexican jokes and general offensiveness, he'd had enough and says "Yeah? That's pretty berkeleying funny. Know what else is funny? I once killed 7 Vietnamese with a berkeleying entrenching tool." It was indeed pretty funny. What was even funnier was seeing him a few weeks later at the grocery store with his Vietnamese wife. I made little "jabby" motions at him and winked.Now that is funny schit.
Damn, now that is funny...
e_pie wrote: Things I'd like to see done to improve drivers training: #1 Longer classes that consist of more wheel time than classroom time #2 Learning to drive a manual a requirement #3 At least one day of advanced driving techniques on a skidpad. Spin recovery, hard braking, emergency manuvers, and then maybe throw in an autox style portion at the end to piece it all together.
As a kid in the state of MA store were closed on Sundays (old "blue laws") Any way Dad would load us up in what ever car we had at the time take us to the Mall parking lot in the winter and he'd teach us to drive in snow and ice. while the others watched from the snow banks.. I'm the youngest of 8 and there was aways foster kids in the house too so i got to watch lot... I insist on driving most everywhere. Theres only a few people I'm comfy enough to let drive where i will sleep in the car. One is my wife the other is my racing buddy Dave.
When it was my turn to get my LIC Dad had a 87 Chevy waggon...Man that was fun sliding on the ice...
People can't drive worth a dam today. Mostly cause technology has enabled us to become dumbs ass sons of a bitches.
Gotta wonder how many people had everything right that's been handed down from on high in this thread, and we'll never know what STILL went wrong because they STILL died and the only ones left to talk are the ones giving themselves all the credit for controlling the uncontrollable circumstances that havent randomly ended their lives yet.
Apparently some professional driver guy named Wheldon just died in a car that had ridiculous amounts of safety engineering in it.
I think i know what killed him... kinetic energy. Or more specifically, the transfer of said energy to non-Wheldon objects.
I'm so brilliant that i have discovered an OBVIOUS solution, but since rattling it off to yall doesnt change anything and sure as hell isnt going to inoculate you against random death, i'll spend the time typing something else in another thread. 
When i die, i just hope i have time to make a joke about it, and i sure as hell hope i dont spend my last second thinking about how i could have exerted my 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% control over the universe differently to postpone my death by an unknowable increment.
dean1484 wrote: When waiting to turn if you keep the wheels strait and you are hit you will be pushed with the flow of traffic. Wheels turned you are pushed into on comming traffic.
Were that it were so. Unfortunately, physics and reality get involved. Rarely will such a hit be centered and square. Once a vehicle is hit off center, distorted, and/or bounced, it can wind up almost anywhere.
That's part of the problem with braking while towing. Even though the hitch is at the centerline of the vehicle, it does not act at the center of gravity. Under heaving braking a heavy trailer can easily turn the towing vehicle.
Edit: Yes, having one's wheels straight might help, but it's no guarantee that you won't wind up in the path of oncoming cars.
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