I'm down to Chevy Cruze and Honda Accord, 2013 models for new car. thoughts?

http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/03/09/welburn-working-on-high-performing-chevy-cruze-hatchback-being-considered-for-u-s/

Ever since the Chevrolet Cruze made its debut, there has been a desire amongst Chevy enthusiasts for a high-performance version of the compact sedan. According to General Motors’ vice president of global design, his team is thinking of developing a performance Cruze sedan inspired by the WTCC racing version. “A black exterior, butterscotch interior, a tidied-up treatment of the WTCC car’s wheel arches and air extractors in the hood” are on Welburn’s wish list, along with a “2.0 turbo motor.” Welburn also said the Chevrolet is researching the possibility of selling the new 5-door Chevrolet Cruze hatchback in the United States. The model recently made its debut at the 2011 Geneva Motor Show. “Ford is selling hatchbacks,” he added. “We’ll see what they do.”

Personally, I'm tired of the 'ol GM wait n see approach, they need to do the hatchback asap.

I don't quite understand everyone's insistence on buying an appliance car. Some times a generic CAR is what you need at the moment, and if it costs less to lease it, and you'd rather be rid of it before it causes you to have to think about it, then that makes sense. Most of the reasons we usually have to buy a car (moddability, the ability to take care of it and keep it a long time, etc.) just don't apply in this case.

forzav12 wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: As a 20+ yrs faithfull, die hard GM driver, I would not buy the Chevy. I will never buy another GM product. I hung in as long as I could, but then I woke up to the fact that they've built nothing but junk for at least the last two decades, and I was clinging to what GM USED to be. They went broke because they make crap cars, plain and simple, and the govt bailout has not changed that fact. I'd bet my left nut that the Honda will still be on the road long after that Cruze has met the crusher, and I hate Hondas.

OK, you win the award for best comedy in today's GRM posts. "Nothing but junk for the last two decades" hahahahahahahahahahaha Excuse me while I fire up the ZR1 for another record lap at the 'Ring, naw, maybe I'll destroy an M3 with my Caddy station wagon....

I'm with Aeromoto. There are a number of different ways to define quality. GM succeeds with a few (very few) models, the ZR-1 and CTS-V among them. Where they have failed is in consistently building vehicles that rate near the fop of their peer group in terms of build quality and reliability/durability. And I'll go even further and say it: "GM has built nothing but junk for the last FOUR decades." There ya go!

And for those who feel the need to refute this assertion, please don't bother posting unless you've ACTUALLY OWNED a GM vehicle. After all, there's a big difference between reading about how awesome a GM product is on the track and actually owning one and having to pay for a major driveline repair before you've worn out one set of tires.

Well what are you after a compact zippy car, or a comfortable family car?

If both deals are equal I would go with the most car for the money, which would be the Accord.

1988RedT2 wrote: And for those who feel the need to refute this assertion, please don't bother posting unless you've ACTUALLY OWNED a GM vehicle. After all, there's a big difference between reading about how awesome a GM product is on the track and actually owning one and having to pay for a major driveline repair before you've worn out one set of tires.

Late model and trouble free GM cars and trucks here for the last 12 years, and 700,000 km. I will have a Cobalt SS S/C next year, and currently looking at replacing my high mileage, squeak, and rattle free 06 Canyon with a shiny new one. Everybody builds good cars now.

^ Ditto. Before my first Hyundai in 2002, ALL I owned were GM's. I personally put close to 350k miles on mine and loved everyone of them.

But why no hyundai or kia? Are we shopping by brand name now?

Oh come on fellas, the ZR1 and the CTS-V are fast, but check back in on them in about 5 yrs when everything is broken, and here we are speaking of their everyday garden variety models, not the high performance play toys. The crappy interiors literally crumble in your hands, the windows leak to the point that mold takes over, the electronic components constantly fail, as in the a/c controllers, wipers, etc. And don't get me started on the brakes (trucks). If you actually use the trucks to their rated capacity, the brakes are grossly undersized if not down right dangerous. I'm forced to do a brake job every six months and it's still not enough. I've got about 2 more weeks in my current Suburban and then I'm switching to Ford, which goes against every bone in my body, but I figure how could Ford be any worse?

06 Canyon is 5 years old, with 250k on the original brakes. Same with wife's 5 yr old GM. My buddies 98 Vette is practically perfect without a rattle, squeak, or any of the problems you mentioned.

Aeromoto wrote: Oh come on fellas, the ZR1 and the CTS-V are fast, but check back in on them in about 5 yrs when everything is broken, and here we are speaking of their everyday garden variety models, not the high performance play toys. The crappy interiors literally crumble in your hands, the windows leak to the point that mold takes over, the electronic components constantly fail, as in the a/c controllers, wipers, etc. And don't get me started on the brakes (trucks). If you actually use the trucks to their rated capacity, the brakes are grossly undersized if not down right dangerous. I'm forced to do a brake job every six months and it's still not enough. I've got about 2 more weeks in my current Suburban and then I'm switching to Ford, which goes against every bone in my body, but I figure how could Ford be any worse?

06 GMC with 62k miles. No rattles. No squeaks. Nothing broken. Drives great. Towed over capacity a few times, handled 3100lb vette on 1500lb trailer through northern Arkansas, south west missouri. Brakes were morethan adequate with a trailer without brakes.

1988 Corvette, neglected for the last 10 years. 150k harsh miles, all fluids were black when purchased. Runs and drives well, needs gaskets and seals, but I'd not be afraid to drive it anywhere. Everything electrical still works. Seals are leaky, but c'mon it's 23 years old. You expect a little rubber rot.

Dad's 2003 Chevy silverado, 186k miles. He's had to replace one upper control arm bushing, shocks and brakes. Rest has been fluid changes. Nothing else. No rattles, no squeaks, no nothing.

I could go on and on here, but I think you get the point. Stop being a hater.

I just has a leak in the cooling system on the Suburban, a PLASTIC Tee fitting in the heater circuit cracked, and when I attempted to repair the leak, one more PLASTIC tee broke, as well as the PLASTIC heater valve, costing me about $250 for a new PLASTIC heater valve. PLASTIC? Really? REALLY? On a $60k "heavy duty" work vehicle? Using actual metal fittings would drive the production costs up..., what,... maybe 5-10 bucks? Freakin shameful.

digdug18 wrote: I'd rather not go for a lease either, but me and wife cannot afford to purchase outright and still keep 6 months of pay in the bank account just in case. Both are not the cars I'd go with if I had another option...

So, why are you looking at new cars? There's plenty of deals on good used appliance cars that would cost considerably less than a lease. (Which is why I'm in the "buy the appliance cars, too" camp.)

My wifes 98 Cavalier Z24 lasted 200,000 miles, and never once left her stranded. We had a 2008 Saturn ion for 2 years and thought it was quite durable...boring as vanilla flavored glue, but rock solid. My parents 06 malibu is a good car that has been very dependable driving from the Cincinnati area to maryland where my sis lives ...3 or 4 times a year, not to mention trips to Arizona and Maine. My Dads Canyon is a tough truck that he has put through the paces hauling mulch and supplies for the house, and pulling a trailer with all sorts of random crap. I LOVE our brand new Terrain. Several road trips, including mountain passes and record heat, and its as fun to drive as any crossover possibly could be. Id be willing to bet that dumping the spare and whatever weight can be romoved without tools, a set of decent tires, and some hawk pads would make for a eally surprising run around some twisties. And i fully plan to make either the new Regal Gs, or hopefully a hi-po Cruze my next steed. Yep. I like the general, and am sick of the whiners going on and on abut the 91 skylark being a hunk of turd. It was. The 90s were rough on Detroit...lets not forget about the sables and le barons that are also to blame for american car stereotypes too. But they moved on and are making great cars again with features people want. Get over yourselves.

...actually dont. Id rather not associate myself with the naysayers out there. Please do not buy a new GM...that way people wont think im like you in any way when they see me in my new Regal.

My wife and I have suffered through owning a few of the GM products. (Pontiac Grand Am SE, Chevrolet Blazer S10)

I look at the gas, maintenance, repairs, parts; all company supplied, company leased GM products that I had the honor of driving the past 12 years and I remember that most all my driving was hard as I thought I was Mario and maintenance was stretched to the limits and I really was impressed how they held up. Two Impala's, Two Venture Vans, One Trailblazer = 350,000 miles with nothing more than a set of brakes on each one of the vans. Four of the cars were turned in at 60-75,000 miles with the factory tires.

I am still a fan of GM but I cannot afford the latest GM prices.

Aeromoto wrote: I just has a leak in the cooling system on the Suburban, a PLASTIC Tee fitting in the heater circuit cracked, and when I attempted to repair the leak, one more PLASTIC tee broke, as well as the PLASTIC heater valve, costing me about $250 for a new PLASTIC heater valve. PLASTIC? Really? REALLY? On a $60k "heavy duty" work vehicle? Using actual metal fittings would drive the production costs up..., what,... maybe 5-10 bucks? Freakin shameful.

So you had a single cooling issue on a single vehicle and they;re all junk? Got it. You were looking for a reason, it's OK. I feel the same way about Toyota and their overpriced piles of E36 M3.

1988RedT2 wrote:

forzav12 wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: As a 20+ yrs faithfull, die hard GM driver, I would not buy the Chevy. I will never buy another GM product. I hung in as long as I could, but then I woke up to the fact that they've built nothing but junk for at least the last two decades, and I was clinging to what GM USED to be. They went broke because they make crap cars, plain and simple, and the govt bailout has not changed that fact. I'd bet my left nut that the Honda will still be on the road long after that Cruze has met the crusher, and I hate Hondas.

OK, you win the award for best comedy in today's GRM posts. "Nothing but junk for the last two decades" hahahahahahahahahahaha Excuse me while I fire up the ZR1 for another record lap at the 'Ring, naw, maybe I'll destroy an M3 with my Caddy station wagon....

I'm with Aeromoto. There are a number of different ways to define quality. GM succeeds with a few (very few) models, the ZR-1 and CTS-V among them. Where they have failed is in consistently building vehicles that rate near the fop of their peer group in terms of build quality and reliability/durability. And I'll go even further and say it: "GM has built nothing but junk for the last FOUR decades." There ya go! And for those who feel the need to refute this assertion, please don't bother posting unless you've ACTUALLY OWNED a GM vehicle. After all, there's a big difference between reading about how awesome a GM product is on the track and actually owning one and having to pay for a major driveline repair before you've worn out one set of tires.

Okay I have a bunch of cars so lets see what I CURRENTLY OWN (since you did specify real owners) from GM from the last four decades:

1971 Chevelle 454SS

1972 Firebird 455 4 speed

1978 Trans AM SE

75 Chevorlet 4x4 truck

76 GMC Casa Grande

91 Suburban 4x4

2009 Solstice GXP coupe

In the past I was a big Toyota fan, when they actually made interesting vehicles, but that went away mid to late 90s. I still own one MR2 and none of the previous (5) Toyotas I owned stood out as more reliable than my GM cars......Porsches either. Bear in mind I also currently own cars/trucks from Dodge, Jeep, Volkswagen, Toyota, Porsche, Ford, Buick, and Austin Healey. Also motorcycles from Honda, Yamaha, BMW, and Husqvarna, so I am anything but a brand specific fanboi and have personal experience with a lot of different brands.

Just because a car makes it to the top of a poll based on what manufacturer makes the best appliance, or who has the most convenient cupholders does nothing for me. I don't want what the large majority of the driving puppets want. I want fun and exciting vehicles. You can keep your consumer reports and I'll keep driving what the berkeley I want that I enjoy.

Making a statement that GM has build nothing but junk for four decades is just ignorant.

Edit: oh E36 M3 I almost forgot:

84 k5 Blazer 4x4 with the 6.2 and th400. Sat underwater (over the roof) for three days during the TN flood. Then sat for a year with water in everything....engine, transmission, diffs, even the mufflers were full of water after a year. I drained all the fluids and replaced them, bypassed the glowplug controller, installed new glowplugs, batteries, and belts and what do you know? Fired right up and still running strong.

I would never voluntarily give GM a dime of my money on principle. But even if I would consider it, as others have said, look at the residual. I'm guessing the Cruze will be worth zilch compared to the Honda in three years.

Not sure what they've got going on now, but Honda was doing $0 down, $0 interest, $0 first payment, and $210 a month on the Fit a couple months ago. I know people here will hem and haw about a lease, but if you're the kind of person that buys a new car every few years anyway, it might make sense.

Aeromoto wrote: I just has a leak in the cooling system on the Suburban, a PLASTIC Tee fitting in the heater circuit cracked, and when I attempted to repair the leak, one more PLASTIC tee broke, as well as the PLASTIC heater valve, costing me about $250 for a new PLASTIC heater valve. PLASTIC? Really? REALLY? On a $60k "heavy duty" work vehicle? Using actual metal fittings would drive the production costs up..., what,... maybe 5-10 bucks? Freakin shameful.

If you're crying about that cooling system repair you better stay far far away from a BMW.

I'm a hatchback kind of guy - the last 3 cars I've owned have been Honda hatchbacks, and the last 5 my wife have owned have been hatchbacks. That said, I don't really see the added functionality of the new breed of hatchbacks, like the new Focus or the export-only Cruze. Take a look:

The way the new hatchbacks slope downwards really eats up any useful "stack-stuff-up" space, which to me is the real selling point of a hatchback over a sedan. Other carmakers do it right, take the Scion xD, or Honda Fit for example:

You get the most packaging space for your wheelbase with this sort of design. If you are going to slope the roof and hatchback way down, you may as well get a lockable trunk out of the deal as well and just go with the sedan. The little Fit has 20+ cubic feet of cargo space with the seats up. The larger Chevy Cruze hatch? 14.

Back on topic, I really liked the Cruze. The car was comfortable, interior materials felt very refined on the car I sat in, and the Eco model was available with a 6-speed manual, albeit with no available spare tire. That said, I'd probably go with the Honda. The Accord has been a perennial lease-leader for decades, and there's a reason why. I know more than a couple people who lease Accord after Accord.

Here's where I stand:

I like GM vehicles for the most part. They have had many dependable and cool vehicles over the years. I grew up in an all-GM family, and hell, I own 2 Trans Ams right now. I am just not a fan of their business practices and I'm not sure I want to reward them for their constant foul-ups with my hard-earned cash. They killed off my two favorite divisions (Olds and Pontiac). They STILL badge-engineer like they did in the 80's. For example, they are starting up again with that nonsense by giving every division short of GMC a Cruze of their own. Why? So they can compete with themselves? It's not like they have unique drivetrains like they did during the 60's and 70's. Make the fancy interior optional on ONE car, not 5 of them. This is bad, and is one of the reasons (aside from inconsistent build quality and stubborn, crooked business practices) they spiraled into bankruptcy. Until they figure that out, I'm not giving them my money if I can help it.

That doesn't mean I can't pick up one of their cars or trucks second hand though! They depreciate like they are going out of style as soon as they drive off the lots, and that's where the bargains can be had. I've got my eyes on the turbocharged Cobalt SS right now.

Every car company has winners and losers. Buy (or lease) what makes you happy.

yea, I guess I must be ignorant or nuts? Maybe some of you guys should come over and drive this 09 Sub just to confirm house stupid I am. It's actually kinda fun, because, since the inside door handle quit working last weekend, when you try to get out it's like you're on an episode of Bait Car. Great fun! I can't wait to fix it, because all the cheap plastic door panel clips will break so the door panel can flap around every time the door is opened, not to mention that two of the outside door handles are about to fall off in the street. Oh, and the AC only works on high, and the wipers come on by themselves, and the transmission is starting to shift like you've just been rearended. I live in Central Florida, come on by and enjoy this peach for yourself.

If you're leasing, get whatever drives best. The long-term durability isn't even an issue at that point.

We've only had it a few months and it's the previous generation, but I enjoy our '05 Accord. The 5-speed/4-cyl combo is reasonably entertaining. It's bigger and lighter than my '90 5-series and feels pretty damn nimble. You get the impression someone really anal retentive obsessed over everything (the slightly different textures on all the steering wheel controls so you can ID them without looking, the elegant latch mechanism for the sunglasses holder, the clear markings for every valve's closed position on the cams, the way the control arm 'rest' positions can be locked in w/o having the car on level ground so you can torque the bolts on the bushings in the air). Basic to intermediate maintenance items all seem to be dead simple. I love working on it.

Aeromoto wrote: yea, I guess I must be ignorant or nuts? Maybe some of you guys should come over and drive this 09 Sub just to confirm house stupid I am. It's actually kinda fun, because, since the inside door handle quit working last weekend, when you try to get out it's like you're on an episode of Bait Car. Great fun! I can't wait to fix it, because all the cheap plastic door panel clips will break so the door panel can flap around every time the door is opened, not to mention that two of the outside door handles are about to fall off in the street. Oh, and the AC only works on high, and the wipers come on by themselves, and the transmission is starting to shift like you've just been rearended. I live in Central Florida, come on by and enjoy this peach for yourself.

Our 09 Solstice has a 5 year 100k drivetrain warranty and I thought most GM vehicles came with that in 09 including the burbs. Why don't you take it in for the transmission issue, since it should be covered, then just raise hell about the other stuff? Hell my 91 Suburban doesn't have half the problems your 09 does (although it did blow a headgasket after 303k miles). Something doesn't seem right here.

As far as the door panel clips though....well those aren't that great on anything. They are cheap to replace though and a lot of different manufacturers use the same style, to the point that I interchange them on vehicles as needed depending on what I'm working on at the time.

Cotton wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: yea, I guess I must be ignorant or nuts? Maybe some of you guys should come over and drive this 09 Sub just to confirm house stupid I am. It's actually kinda fun, because, since the inside door handle quit working last weekend, when you try to get out it's like you're on an episode of Bait Car. Great fun! I can't wait to fix it, because all the cheap plastic door panel clips will break so the door panel can flap around every time the door is opened, not to mention that two of the outside door handles are about to fall off in the street. Oh, and the AC only works on high, and the wipers come on by themselves, and the transmission is starting to shift like you've just been rearended. I live in Central Florida, come on by and enjoy this peach for yourself.

Our 09 Solstice has a 5 year 100k drivetrain warranty and I thought most GM vehicles came with that in 09 including the burbs. Why don't you take it in for the transmission issue, since it should be covered, then just raise hell about the other stuff? Hell my 91 Suburban doesn't have half the problems your 09 does (although it did blow a headgasket after 303k miles). Something doesn't seem right here. As far as the door panel clips though....well those aren't that great on anything. They are cheap to replace though and a lot of different manufacturers use the same style, to the point that I interchange them on vehicles as needed depending on what I'm working on at the time.

This. If we're going to rate car companies last 40 years on one vehicle, then Toyota should be bankrupt. That stupd RAV of the wife's caught on fire, ate 4 cats, 4 O2 sensors, an ECU, rear diff and struts in 4 years and 80k miles.

All toyota's are garbage. Complete and utter junk. They haven't made a good car in 30 years.

See how silly that sounds?

We recently had the Cruze around the office and I liked it. I've actually liked most of GMs new offerings, as they finally seem to be getting their act together. Inside the Cruze isn't equal to a new Civic, it is much nicer. It isn't a blast to drive, but that wasn't it's purpose. It is very good at being a comfortable, efficient appliance.

We've recently sampled a Traverse, Volt, Cruze, and CTS, and they were all "top of their class" machines. GM has their issues, but finally it seems they are making machines that can stand toe to toe with the competition.

That said, on a lease I'd go with the Accord. It is a bigger car, a known quantity, and will no doubt do your appliance chores without complaint for the length of your lease.

Oh it doesnt begin and end with the Sub, theres also an 01 Blazer that wasw maybe the most horrible thing to ever disgrace 4 tires, a 99 Sub that was just as bad, and a parade of Camaros and C4 corvettes. The C4s I owned, especially the 85 and 91, has the worst interior quality of any car I've ever seen before or since, with a close possible second being the mid 80s Monte carlo SS's and Elcaminos. The last one I owned that had a feeling of quality was the 1990 Suburban. I put 250k on it and never had a problem. All this being said, I currently have a 65 Eldorado ragtop and an 84 S-10 tubbed drag car that I love. I just wouldn't ever buy another new one. I think the resale values speak for themselves