Been looking at in-car video setups, similar to the Garmin Catalyst. What I want is something that will record in-car video, plus record speed and ideally track position. Then I got to thinking, do any of these types of setups stream video instantly to a smartphone? This would be hella sweet, if we could watch real time what the driver is seeing in the pits. Unsure if track bandwidth becomes a problem though, if multiple people are doing the same thing.
Can this also be done using a Go-Pro, or possibly even just a smartphone with some sort of app mounted in the car?
I'm sure there's something for this, I'm just a tech dinosaur and usually at least a decade behind the times. Thanks for the info in advance!
Bandwidth can definitely become a problem even if only one person is streaming. It can be done with all-in-one cameras that include data loggers and streaming, just a smartphone, a GoPro connected to a laptop (plus some hacked-up OBD2 setup for data)...the question is which things you really want to do and how you want to do it. If you really want to do all of these things at once the relative ease of an all-smartphone setup is going to be hard to beat, but that's a jack of all trades and master of none setup - there will be compromises everywhere.
Edit: My opinion, for an average Joe who isn't getting paid to stream, live streaming is overrated, and many tracks just don't have the infrastructure for it. A used GoPro or a good cheap-brand action cam is a good value for money for video, for data logging you can't beat the function of a proper racing data logger, but a phone running TrackAddict + a BT-OBD2 module is relatively cheap and easy and a great value for money, giving you 80% of the functions for 20% of the money and effort.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
OBDII isn't an option for this- the race car has no computer. Though it would be nice to know instantaneous engine RPM, oil pressure, coolant temps, etc. Probably tough to do without OBDII.
Just looking mainly for video, GPS position + speed. Even if all the app did was transmit track position on a crude map, and maybe speed, that would be something, even if we had to wait till later to download the video. Would a ~$200 smartphone added to my existing plan and a suction mount do basically what we need to do?
Yeah the smartphone could do what you need, it would get accelerometer and heading data from onboard sensors, and speed and position from GPS. There's a lot of improvement to be had with a high-speed external GPS for a smartphone, especially in reducing the lag on speed data, but then you could be getting closer to the price of a racing data logger - those would have the inputs for non-OBD2 sensor readings, but they're a pain to wire up.
An action cam with GPS + accelerometer data logging could do the same job as the smartphone in terms of video and data logging, there are some that can live stream as well but those get really expensive.
Here's a thread on my experience in using TrackAddict strictly for data logging, combining it with GoPro video, including comparisons to logging with a proper racing data logger:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/trackaddict-users-best-phone-orientation/208168/page1/
volvoclearinghouse said:
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Just looking mainly for video, GPS position + speed. Even if all the app did was transmit track position on a crude map, and maybe speed, that would be something, even if we had to wait till later to download the video. Would a ~$200 smartphone added to my existing plan and a suction mount do basically what we need to do?
An ApexPro unit, with an Apex subscription will livestream data (GPS position, Accels & Speed) to their site that other people can access (I don't recall if you need 2 subscriptions to do that or not). And their app to review data after-the-fact is one of the best, imho.
it, currently, doesn't pull in and integrate with video, though.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
The ApexPro unit looks pretty cool ( https://apextrackcoach.com/shop/ ) but $600 for a unit that doesn't record video, and requires an app and subscriptions, is a bit spendy for us.
I'm assuming you're wanting to keep a tight budget, but the Garmin new right now is $200 off.
EDIT: Derp I didn't realize you had a link in there to it on eBay that reflects the $200 off. I'd very seriously consider one of those if I was going to be tracking my car. GRM did a test on these a while back, right?
z31maniac said:
I'm assuming you're wanting to keep a tight budget, but the Garmin new right now is $200 off.
EDIT: Derp I didn't realize you had a link in there to it on eBay that reflects the $200 off. I'd very seriously consider one of those if I was going to be tracking my car. GRM did a test on these a while back, right?
Yeah, That's what I'd looked at. Will it broadcast data real time back to a smartphone? We're always stressing at the track "where is the car? is it all right?" so even just knowing where it is and it's speed would be great. I was looking at using Google's "Find My Location" feature which is half way there, but doesn't seem to give speed. A lot of the GPS trackers out there only update every 15 seconds or whatever, useless for this.
volvoclearinghouse said:
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
The ApexPro unit looks pretty cool ( https://apextrackcoach.com/shop/ ) but $600 for a unit that doesn't record video, and requires an app and subscriptions, is a bit spendy for us.
just to be clear:
the app (which afaik is currently only iOS) is free. You can use the app and collect data to look at afterward free, using the phone's 2Hz data... or you can get their IMU unit and record 10Hz data, which is significantly better.
the subscription is required for for streaming data live; and I think there might be other perks to that as well.
I've spent two years using their app, and doing driver coaching by having the apex file sent to me via email and loading it into my own install of the app.
I realize, though, that you're probably looking to use this for LeMons racing... and that "realtime" streamed data would be helpful/useful in that regard.
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I think one of the video-focused entities working in that space... developed by a WRL racer (iirc) is the Sentinel Video System:
https://candelaria-racing.com/
I've worked with a coach that tried to use it "realtime" remotely in a sprint race last year that was also being livestreamed (via a free demo hook up) and the lag was too much; since it relies on the cell network for streaming data/video. I don't know the pricing structure on it... but something else to keep an eye on.
my understanding of the Garmin is that everything is located on-device... and to do anything with the data "off the device" is generally frowned upon by them.
I also "understand" that it's possible to offload the data to view it on TrackAttack or similar 3rd party data display program... but it's of the level of "you may be voiding the warranty of the device" to do so.
edit
re:Didn't GRM test the Garmin?
They did, and they used an ApexPro to coach the other driver. I didn't make the comment in that thread, because it was a semi-sponsored deal... but JG really didn't use the power of realtime data from the ApexPro in the coaching the way they could have. Although, I realize that a) JG might not have the subscription; b) JG might have had other responsibilities that day that precluded him from watching/coaching the sessions that (I forget who, Chris?) was driving.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Looking at apps like TrackAddict, Harry's LapTimer, and RaceChrono, do they do the GPS real time speed and position live to a smartphone in the pits thing?
volvoclearinghouse said:
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Looking at apps like TrackAddict, Harry's LapTimer, and RaceChrono, do they do the GPS real time speed and position live to a smartphone in the pits thing?
The update rate is typically 10hz IIRC, so every 1/10th of a second.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
Yep, LeMons racing. Realtime data is what I'd want, even if I'm not getting realtime video.
z31maniac said:
volvoclearinghouse said:
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Looking at apps like TrackAddict, Harry's LapTimer, and RaceChrono, do they do the GPS real time speed and position live to a smartphone in the pits thing?
The update rate is typically 10hz IIRC, so every 1/10th of a second.
That'd be excellent. Reading through Track Addict online, it looks like, paired with live.racerender.com , it can do live telemetry. Records, video, too.
I have the Garmin, and find it very useful. We used it in the lemons cars last year. Out of curiosity, what is the benefit to knowing the realtime on track position for a lemons car?
I'm pretty sure that Autosport Labs can stream both data and video in near real-time.
https://www.autosportlabs.com/
Its used by many endurance racers I know
Racebrick said:
I have the Garmin, and find it very useful. We used it in the lemons cars last year. Out of curiosity, what is the benefit to knowing the realtime on track position for a lemons car?
So the hyper-anxious team captain can know if the car's still running, if it's hobbling around the track, if it's pulled into the pits unexpectedly. Or if it's exploded into a fireball on the back straight where I can't see it.
volvoclearinghouse said:
Racebrick said:
I have the Garmin, and find it very useful. We used it in the lemons cars last year. Out of curiosity, what is the benefit to knowing the realtime on track position for a lemons car?
So the hyper-anxious team captain can know if the car's still running, if it's hobbling around the track, if it's pulled into the pits unexpectedly. Or if it's exploded into a fireball on the back straight where I can't see it.
Note that a dropped data connection or crashed app will look the same as a car that exploded in a fireball 
You can do this with the "life360" app. It is spyware for parents who do not trust their children. It gives speed info, and position on a map.
I still don't see this as a benefit in the context of an endurance race, since there is not much you can do with the information. I think good radios are a more useful and powerful tool.
volvoclearinghouse said:
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
Yep, LeMons racing. Realtime data is what I'd want, even if I'm not getting realtime video.
I can definitely see the value in having access to "realtime" data, even in grassroots enduro perspective. Gives the team/team-lead insight into the car performance without having to "bug the driver", but also gives a window for the trackside team to radio-in "hey, we're good, you can lay off two seconds a lap" or "hey, you can adjust your line through T# an lose a second and the car will be happier" kind of thing.
I think ApexPro would be powerful in this sense, if you got to know it and had someone who knew how to use it with y'all to walk you through it... but I fully understand that their expense, and the education to get to what I've described, being a barrier to your program.
re: 10Hz data, I think most apps Harrys/TrackAddict need an external GPS attenae to compute 10Hz data. which shouldn't be that hard to add to a phone/mobile device.
Racebrick said:
You can do this with the "life360" app. It is spyware for parents who do not trust their children. It gives speed info, and position on a map.
I still don't see this as a benefit in the context of an endurance race, since there is not much you can do with the information. I think good radios are a more useful and powerful tool.
That's a whole other topic. We've tried different radio setups, and frankly, they all suck.
z31maniac said:
volvoclearinghouse said:
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Looking at apps like TrackAddict, Harry's LapTimer, and RaceChrono, do they do the GPS real time speed and position live to a smartphone in the pits thing?
The update rate is typically 10hz IIRC, so every 1/10th of a second.
That depends if you're using the built in phone GPS (which usually has a 1Hz update rate) or an external GPS. The latter usually have a 5Hz or 10Hz update rate.
Any kind of communication system you use will be capable of failing in a way that's indistinguishable from the car getting into a wreck on track which can make the team captain's anxiety worse instead of better...sounds like you need to do something about that anxietry, if he doesn't drive or work on the car can you slip him some "edibles" at the start of the race perhaps? 
