mndsm wrote: Also curtis, you're welcome to come "live" with me. They didn't even ask if I had another car when I got collector plates for the mx6. Good for 10 years... and they can't really check mileage that far away.
I appreciate that greatly. That works for my vehicles, but any that I sell or modify for someone who lives in PA needs to have a slam-dunk inspection process. I always wanted a copy of that code and be able to point at the rule when they try to fail me.
Ian F wrote: On a car like a '66 Pontiac, I would either, A. Get Classic tags, or B. Scrape off the remains of whatever sticker is there and not bother. Experience has me reasonably convinced few cops know the inspection requirements for classic cars and just assume an old car doesn't need them.
I'll have to check, but as of when I left PA (back in 1999) a classic car was subject to the exact same inspection as a new car. There were obvious grandfather clauses for cars that weren't originally equipped with shoulder belts, side view mirrors, or parking brakes, but otherwise it was the same inspection.
I totally agree with your comment about the cops. But the problem may work against me, too. Even if classics don't need inspection stickers, I would get the cop who thinks they do.
cutter67 i think inspections are good and every state should have them
I also respectfully disagree. I have lived in 7 states and 2 canadian provinces. States in which there are no safety inspections statistically didn't have significantly different accident rates from poorly maintained vehicles. Logically speaking, it does seem like the doofus who never checks his brake pads would be more likely to cause an accident than the well-maintained vehicle, but oddly enough the statistics don't support that.
I also have serious problems with states that deny stickers based on a rust hole larger than a quarter, but will pass the same vehicle if it has duct tape over the hole. OR a state that denies my sticker because my suspension fabrication looked home-made, but passed it after I put bondo over the welds and a name-brand sticker on it.
In PA, its a CYA proposition in which the inspection shops follow only the rules that might get their license revoked. Its complete BS. I have no problem if they want to check my brakes, my emissions, and verify that I don't have a CEL, but the rules are written so subjectively.
JohnRW and Rob_Mopar.... Thank you for the links I couldn't find. Your google-fu is superior to mine.
I wonder if the exhaust spewing a cone of fire under acceleration would fail pa inspections.......
Rule 1: Make friendly with mechanic that has inspection license.
Rule 2: See Rule1.
It's really that simple.
As far as collector plates, all it buys you in PA is no emissions as long as you stay under the 5k/yr limit (just like any other vehicle) and a lower registration cost. A collector tag is a different beast, which waives both inspections, but is much harder (impossible?) to get. That one requires a one time inspection by one of just a few select shops in your area that can do that sort of thing and all modifications need to be documented, pictures, etc. My local guy won't even look at a late model, only exotic/old for those plates, but YMMV.
In reply to curtis73:
Yes, a car with "classic" registration still needs annual safety inspection. "Antique" registration has none at all, although the process for getting those tags can be more involved. From what I remember reading, "collector" tags are for modified cars that don't fall under "classic" requirements and do still require annual safety inspection. It's the same form for all three which I have. The details are on the back.
I've been procrastinating about applying for classic tags for my E30. Mainly to avoid the emissions test it won't pass, despite the cat and o2 sensor being relatively new according to the previous owner. Of course, I consider this my own fault for buying a car in PA without current stickers (none at all, in fact). If I'd known it was going fail I either wouldn't have bought it or asked for a good $1000 less on the price. Unfortunately, this (and the fact the car seems to break everytime I drive it) is why I'm so soured on the car.
My Spec E30 is now 25 years old and eligible for antique tags. I've just heard that the photo requirement is no more, so you can simply fill out the form and apply. 
Ian, all that your E30 should need to pass the emissions test is the visual inspection (cat converter) and the gas cap test. If the CE light is on, pull the bulb. It's too old for codes. I got mine to pass before I built it into a race car, and due to the mileage it's 'exempt' every year. It no longer has a cat hanging under it, but they never put it on the lift to see that. 
ddavidv wrote: I've just heard that the photo requirement is no more, so you can simply fill out the form and apply.
That's a huge change, in true. And one much for the better. The games they would play with the photo requirements were incredible.
ddavidv wrote: Ian, all that your E30 should need to pass the emissions test is the visual inspection (cat converter) and the gas cap test.
Not where I live. It has to pass a dyno test under load... which it failed miserably.
The thing about PA emissions testing is it varies greatly depending on what county you live in, so you can't make a blanket statement about what the rules are. In the urban/suburban areas, it can be near Kalifornia levels of stringency. Some rural areas have no emissions requirements at all beyond a simple visual inspection. A friend who lives near Tamaqua doesn't even get an emissions sticker - safety sticker only.
2 things.
First, the catalytic converter thing is FEDERAL, not state. Even if you live in a state that doesn't have inspections, you can get in trouble for no cat.
Second, PA is not that bad. I have lived in SC (no inspection) and PA near Pittsburgh. I have to pass emmissions and have never had a problem. This is with a Turbo and Non-turbo RX7 with no emmissions stuff on the car except a cat. In fact, the tests are so easy to pass, I came in WAY under the max acceptable value.
If you drive less than 5000 miles per year, you don't need to do emmissions.
The physical inspection is shop dependent. If they are not sure about something, they will fail it. If this happens, go to a different shop.
I currently have my Lemons RX7 inspected (physical AND emmisions) in PA with zero problems.
Rob R.
To help with the PA emissions testing confusion, here's the official site.
http://www.drivecleanpa.state.pa.us/
Here's a pretty usefull sub-page to figure out what emission testing your car will need.
http://www.ahs2.dep.state.pa.us/aq_apps/emissions/test.htm
foxtrapper wrote:ddavidv wrote: I've just heard that the photo requirement is no more, so you can simply fill out the form and apply.That's a *huge* change, in true. And one much for the better. The games they would play with the photo requirements were incredible.
The application form MV-11 is still looking for pictures. They revised the form with information on the new Year Of Manufacture license plate info, but the need for pictures is still on there.
wvumtnbkr wrote: First, the catalytic converter thing is FEDERAL, not state. Even if you live in a state that doesn't have inspections, you can get in trouble for no cat.
Yep, but because of the private nature of PA inspections, the visual verification is solely up to the shop. This is where living in a rural area and knowing the shop comes in handy. One of my friend's cars is a 383 swapped 82 Camaro with long-tube headers. But because she went to grade school with the shop owner (as well as all of the local cops), getting it inspected isn't an issue.
Where it becomes an issue is when the VIN data and emissions test has to be processed. This the shop is less likely to look the other way since it's more difficult and risky to fudge.
My normal inspection shop where I take the TDI and Cummins only does OBDII cars now since they didn't want to bother with buying and maintaining a dyno for only a handful of cars a month. Anything older than OBDII they sub to another shop.
I just downloaded the MV-11 form. It does look like the photgraph requirement for Classic and Antique tags has been removed, although is still applicable for Collectible. I'm still not real comfortable with the part about mailing the title in with the form. That just doesn't seem like a good idea...
Rob_Mopar wrote: The application form MV-11 is still looking for pictures. They revised the form with information on the new Year Of Manufacture license plate info, but the need for pictures is still on there. Classic-Antique-Collectible form MV-11
It's confusing... but the way I read the form, for Collectible registration, pictures are required, for Antique and Classic, they're not. The new form is dated 8-12, so this is definitely new. I just found my old version of the form dated 1-05 and section 3.3 requires submitting 4 pictures of the car (front, rear, both sides) for Antique and Classic tags. The new form deletes this verbage.
curtis73 wrote: JohnRW and Rob_Mopar.... Thank you for the links I couldn't find. Your google-fu is superior to mine.
Curtis,
No google-foo there. Just familiar with the site.
As some pointed out, if you register your Bonnie as an Antique, you'll be inspection exempt. They look for photos of the front, rear, and both sides. They are looking for an original appearing car in the photos.
The Collectible Vehicle plate is better suited to your needs. I don't know anyone running one right now, but it was created for cars like yours. You'll still need an inspection. At an Enhanced Vehicle Inspection Station:
PENDOT Enhanced Vehicle Inspection
Personally, I would cross reference that list with SEMA members on your side of the state to see who would appreciate the work done on the car.
Ian F wrote: < I just downloaded the MV-11 form. It does look like the photgraph requirement for Classic and Antique tags has been removed, although is still applicable for Collectible. I'm still not real comfortable with the part about mailing the title in with the form. That just doesn't seem like a good idea...
Use a reputable tag shop and it's no issue.
Rob_Mopar wrote: Use a reputable tag shop and it's no issue.
I may go back to my tag shop and ask them, but all they did before was hand me the form. Still, I wouldn't mind paying them an additional fee in order to ensure safe processing.
Again - I just noticed the new MV-11 dated 8-12 deletes the verbage in section 3.3 of the old 1-05 dated form requiring pictures for Antiques and Classics.
I noticed that too, but wonder if that was a mistake. I think the text for the pictures requirement might have been dropped off when the YOM tag info was added. And the tag requires a photo too.
If you need a reliable tag shop, I can send you the info for the one I use.
Thanks. If I have trouble with my local guy I'll let you know. Downington is a fair drive for me.
I agree it does seem odd, especially considering how tenacious they apparently were about them. A friend had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get his '71 Mini tagged as an Antique. They made him remove the "GB" sticker on the back of the car... so he did... with Photoshop...
The cost of the inspection in PA is getting a little crazy. The MR2 is emissions exempt, so they look at nothing, test nothing, just give me a sticker and charge $25 for it. Then they look at one brake disc, the headlights and the taillights and charge me $25 for the other sticker. No questions about the repairs or the upgrades at all.
pinchvalve wrote: Then they look at one brake disc, the headlights and the taillights and charge me $25 for the other sticker. No questions about the repairs or the upgrades at all.
That's about what my shop does for the TDI. Most years it never even goes into a bay. I do generally make sure the CEL isn't on when I take it to them. Not always easy with a VW... 
My wife's car wears a sticker because it was at an inspection shop when it was in for tires and an alignment but... my truck says 08/08. It might be "peeled" so you can only read the month though :) I have had my 911 for almost 5 years and it's never been inspected. No sticker at all. I drive both almost every day. I have never in my life had a trailer or motorcycle inspected and I've been driving/riding for almost 30 years.
Civic disobedience. Embrace it.
Rob_Mopar wrote: As some pointed out, if you register your Bonnie as an Antique, you'll be inspection exempt. They look for photos of the front, rear, and both sides. They are looking for an original appearing car in the photos. The Collectible Vehicle plate is better suited to your needs. I don't know anyone running one right now, but it was created for cars like yours. You'll still need an inspection. At an Enhanced Vehicle Inspection Station:
I don't wish to limit my mileage so I'll have to look into those different plates carefully.
Personally, I would cross reference that list with SEMA members on your side of the state to see who would appreciate the work done on the car.
That is a brilliant idea. High five on that one.
Dude, your in Pittsburgh? I didn't notice that before.
Any chance you would come out towards Latrobe? If so, I would like to introduce you to somebody.
email me wvumtnbkr@hotmail.com for info.
wvumtnbkr wrote: Dude, your in Pittsburgh? I didn't notice that before. Any chance you would come out towards Latrobe? If so, I would like to introduce you to somebody. email me wvumtnbkr@hotmail.com for info.
... as in an inspection shop, or a blind date 
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