Instruct me please about early Tempest race cars

During the commercials for the Rolex 24 they had several shots of the first Continental 3-hr in 1962; of course Dan Gurney in the Lotus 19...but also there was a frontal shot of a Pontiac Tempest in the paddock or maybe lined up for the start. I checked www.racingsportscars.com and apparently there were three entered but had no pictures. Apparently they were raced at Sebring too...

Drivers were...get this...Rodger Ward, A J Foyt and Paul Goldsmith!

They apparently didn't finish either race.

Any resources available for pictures, etc.?

Having just sold my 62 that I had similar plans for, I can tell you there's not alot of info out there. What little I did find was either on the H.A.M.B. or on the Little Indians forum.

What I remember is they were V8 cars, and judging by the photos, they lowered the rear to give them some camber.

And yeah, I saw that commercial too. I'll dig up the pics of that same scene of the red & white Tempests in grid.

Never seen those but I will always remember the Herb Adams Tempest that raced against the Sunoco Javelin.

Isn't that the car that was "discovered" when listed on eBay, if so it was originally built with IRS?

found it

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/10/ebay-find-of-the-day-1963-lemans-tempest-sells-for-226-521/

That 63 Tempest on eBay was a drag car. Pontiac built a handful of 421 super duty factory cars in 1963 for drag racing. There were a few 1962 Tempests prepared for the Daytona Continental race in 1962 by Ray Nichels, but information about those cars is pretty scarce. He prepared another car in 1963 that was driven by Paul Goldsmith in the Challenge Cup 250 race; it won, five miles ahead of A.J. Foyt in second place. It was supposedly bought by Mercedes-Benz after the race and was never seen again.

They all had transaxles with swing axle suspension. The eBay drag car was converted by the original owner to a conventional solid rear axle and transmission, but he was able to get Pontiac to issue factory part numbers for the conversion parts so it still met NHRA class rules.

The story on that SD Tempest is likely the coolest Pontiac find I've ever heard of!

The last issue of HPP or Smoke Signals (Can't remember which) has a good tech article on the Tempest transaxle.

Shawn

I saw Goldsmith run the V8 Tempest at the manufacturer's race at Watkins Glen in 1963 (Glen 500, IIRC). It was no match for the Cobras, but I remember that it was plenty loud, and it wasn't last. I would think that tons of power combined with swing axles and 1960s suspension technology would have been, shall we say, "interesting" to drive.

I don't remember much about the car except that it was there, mostly because that race was the first appearance in the East of the factory Cobra team - Ken Miles, Dave MacDonald, Bob Holbert, and "privateer" Bob Johnson. Those cars were so much faster than any previous production car at the Glen that it was stunning, and the four of them ran nose to tail the entire race. It was a very hot day, and MacDonald would line the car up for the main straight and take both hands off the wheel, holding them up in the airstream the entire length of the straight! Every lap! Needless to say, this made an impression on a 17-year old kid.

That's pretty cool - you're the first person I've come across that actually saw that Tempest race. It's mostly been the stuff of legend in the Pontiac community.

jgp1843 wrote: I saw Goldsmith run the V8 Tempest at the manufacturer's race at Watkins Glen in 1963 (Glen 500, IIRC). It was no match for the Cobras, but I remember that it was plenty loud, and it wasn't last. I would think that tons of power combined with swing axles and 1960s suspension technology would have been, shall we say, "interesting" to drive. I don't remember much about the car except that it was there, mostly because that race was the first appearance in the East of the factory Cobra team - Ken Miles, Dave MacDonald, Bob Holbert, and "privateer" Bob Johnson. Those cars were so much faster than any previous production car at the Glen that it was stunning, and the four of them ran nose to tail the entire race. It was a very hot day, and MacDonald would line the car up for the main straight and take both hands off the wheel, holding them up in the airstream the entire length of the straight! Every lap! Needless to say, this made an impression on a 17-year old kid.

Thanks for the responses. What engine would have been in that '63 road race car?

I've left a msg on the Little Indians site but haven't got a response yet.

I remember the discussion regarding the Tempest SD drag car...awesome in itself.

I tried to look up the results for the 1963 Daytona race. Apparently the results on that website I referenced are sketchy...they show Goldsmith in first but the next result is fourth! As far as the Glen race...shows that an SCCA/PHA acquaintance of mine ran in it (A.M. "Oscar" Kovaleski) Wonder if HE remembers the Tempest?

BTW, Dave McDonald might well have been the next racing superstar if he hadn't been dragooned into driving that E36 M3box at Indianapolis the next year...

Herb Adam's 64 Tempest was the baddest of the bad. Talk about an underdog story. As I said in a early post:

Herb Adams constructed a Trans-Am race car around his wife's 64 PontiacTempest. The 80,000-mile 1964 Pontiac had a de-stroked 389-in. motor. It was entered in the opening round of the Sports Car Club of America's 1971 Trans-Am championship. Unable to qualify, the car was allowed to start from the back of the pack. It mowed through the field, and was running second behind eventual winner Mark Donahue's factory-supported Penske Racing AMC Javelin when the engine quit.

Pontiac did not want Adams to show up their Firebird, so Herb and his crew did it themselves and damn near whipped everyone. That's grassroots.

There was a GTO that ran SCCA Nationals at Summit Point in the mid-'70s. It was grey in color and called "The Ghost".

In reply to shadetree30:

The Herb Adams Tempest (driven by Bob Tullius of Group 44 fame) was named "Grey Ghost"; it may have been the same car you saw at Summit.

It's all too easy to confuse a Tempest for a GTO.

oldsaw wrote: It's all too easy to confuse a Tempest for a GTO.

I may well have been mistaken...as you say, not hard to do... Somehow the name "Spruill" comes to mind, either the subsequent driver or sponsor. It had a rendition of Casper on the car.

Congratulations on a great discussion of road racing Pontiac Tempests. As mentioned, there is not a lot of information available on this subject. By way of introduction, I am researching articles on the subject and would welcome any information or leads that anyone has. I can answer some of the questions raised so far: There were four Tempest entered by Ray Nichols in the 1962 Daytona Continental, two powered by V8's and two by four cylinders. Drivers included Ward, Foyt and Goldsmith as mentioned, the fourth was driven by Harry Heuer. Ward was credited with a 27th place finish, the other three were DNF's. The cars headed the grid based on engine displacement and Foyt did lead the opening lap. The cars were entered at Sebring that year, but did not show up. There are a few small B&W pictures in a 1962 edition of the now defunct magazine Sports Car Graphic. The 1962 cars were homologated by the FIA for competition, but the Homologation Papers have been lost. We have tried the FIA, ACCUS, SCCA, Daytona archives, NASCAR, every Pontiac expert known, GM Archives, etc, without any luck. Does anyone know where these papers are or where else to look? In 1963 Paul Goldsmith won the American Challenge Race on Saturday February 16 in a Ray Nichols entered, Tiny Worley prepared LeMans. Conditions were deplorable resulting in a small 14 car field. Goldsmith's luck ran out the next day when he retired early in that year's Continental. The car was powered by a 421 ci carbureted by two Carter four barrels. There are questions about whether the engine was in 62 or 63 configuration. There is also an unconfirmed story that the engine was removed from the car and installed in Lee Roy Yarborough's Studebaker Sportsman to race later that week. The car was allegedly sold to Mercedes for competitive analysis and has not been seen since, despite much searching on both sides of the Atlantic. The late John Sawruk supposedly had documentation of this and either wrote an article about it or lectured about it. Does anyone have anything to confirm this? I believe the story, but as Ronald Reagan used to say "Trust but verify". The article on the Tempest SD transaxle was on page 42 of the January 2010 issue of Smoke Signals. Shawn, thanks for the kind words. There is a mention by jpg1843 about the car and Goldsmith competing in a 1963 race at Watkins Glen. My research has not found this, is there any confirming information available? On the Gray Ghost, a 2000 retrospective in Car and Driver said that the car was sold to Louis Spoerl, a Pontiac/Cadillac/GMC dealer in Cumberland, MD. He raced the car in SCCA events and co-drove a Firebird with Herb Adams at Daytona in 1979 (DNF - Oil Pressure). The article says that the car was restored with Pontiac's help in 1996 and was used in Vintage races in the Midwest, still in the Spoerl family's hands. A friend mentioned seeing the car on static display at a show in Ohio a few years ago, but doesn't remember much else. Anyone know where the car is today? In response to shadetree30, a photo in the Car and Driver article shows the car with a Casper cartoon on the rear sail panel. I didn't see that in pictures from the 1971 Trans Am season, so maybe Spoerl added it during his ownership. As mentioned, I am interested in any information or any leads anyone has on these three subjects. Thanks Mike

On the '63 Glen race - my memory may be incorrect. I've done enough serious research for my own writing projects to know that memories can be misleading, we need documentation, and I can't find any documentation of a Goldsmith entry at that race, either. So chances are that my "clear memory" of the event is not accurate. Sorry about that. Must be getting old, although I have slept since then.

In the 80's I crewed for a team that raced in the SCCA Trans-Am series and the occasional GT1 and IMSA GTO race. Being from NJ, we often raced and tested at Summit Point. I remember seeing the Grey Ghost there a couple times. They were racing it in SCCA GT1, I think at the Regional, not Nationals, level. It did have an illustration of Casper on it and I think said "Grey Ghost" on it too. I'm sure these were added by Spoerl, or at least, sometime after the 1971 Trans-Am season. I believe it also had badging on it for Spoerls Pontiac-Cadillac. The first time I saw it at Summit, I inquired if it was the Herb Adams LeMans, and was told that indeed it was. Because of the amount of time required by my commitments to another team, I never really got to talk much to them or find out much about the car. I always wondered what the story was, behind how it ended up in MD. I'm pretty sure that Spoerl was involved in drag racing Pontiacs, too. I have several slides of the car from back then (1983-84?). I will try to dig some out and post them here shortly.

Here is some additional information on the Gray Ghost and Spoerl racing. First is a web site detailing the Gray Ghost's participation in a 1972 SCCA event at VIR:

http://www.virhistory.com/vir/72-oct/rg-7204-1.htm

Second is a picture of a Pontiac powered dragster from a Tim Spoerl:

http://dragracersreunion.ning.com/photo/2474192:Photo:34034?context=album&albumId=2474192%3AAlbum%3A34049

Enjoy!

Hello,

Over the past year I have been researching the endurance road racing Pontiac Tempests/Lemans of the 1960's. Several of you have responded to my requests for information. The information provided has allowed me to construct a good part of the story, but not the entire story.

For that reason, I have put together a web space that details some of the information we have found to date and also asks questions on things required to complete the story. A link is at the bottom of this page. I would very much appreciate it if you would take a moment to review it and provide whatever information you may have. Anything, no matter how seemingly insignificant, is welcome. Please provide as much information as you can, including contact information.

To contact me, you can either respond to this email or use the Contact Us form at the end of the web space. Feel free to forward the link to whomever you feel may be helpful.

Here's hoping you have the happiest and most blessed of holiday seasons.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Mike

http://members.cox.net/tempest-lemans/index.htm

Wow, great work so far. Really enjoyed reading through it all!

Thanks for the update. Have you been in contact with Don Keefe, the editor of the Smoke Signals magazine for the POCI club? I believe he's been trying to find information on the FIA papers as well.

Maybe not relevant to the discussion, but here's a great article on the early, fully independent suspended Tempest and LeMans from The Truth About Cars (the Curbside Classics series is really worth a look). 1963 Tempest Curbside Classic

The famous Javelin vs Tempest race is one of my first racing memories. I was always more of a Donahue fan but kept an eye on Adams for years. He built some pretty mean Firebirds too but nothing ever topped the Tempest.

Great thread - I sold my 63 V8 transxle Tempest a few years back. Still have the hubcabs and a grille with the V8 emblem though.

Stuart in MN - Yes Don Keefe and I have spoken. Whle we rae both very interested in finding the Homologation Ppaers, there has not been a lot of progress to date. Do you have any thoughts on where they might be?

ddavidv - I had seen this site and you are right, it is very useful in helping betr understand these very unique cars.

petegossett - Thanks for kiond words. Let me knwo if you can think of anything related ton these cars and their competition history.

Take care,

Mike