Interest in Miata-based kit cars?

There is sort of a "spec Locost" series in the UK, 750 Formula or something like that. Of course, it's based on the "book" Locost with antique Escort parts. But the idea is a good one. And I just took a phone call from someone asking if there was a series for Westfields in the US.

The problem with trying to enter the Locost market is that it's ridiculously price sensitive. But if you can come up with a good package that's as bolt-together as it gets and uses all of the "naked Miata" except for the front subframe, there's certainly some potential there.

The RX8 does use a PPF, by the way. As does the newest Miata, which shares the same underpinnings.

I don't think the Elan is a good option. Why build an Elan kit when you can have the real thing for about the same money? They're also just not dramatic enough and I'm not sure you'd really save any weight. Remember, you're stuck with Miata track and minimum wheelbase, which means it's going to be bigger than most.

I don't think a Jaguar C-type or D-type replica has to be a straight six. If you're a purist, you'll complain about the 'glass body too. But leave enough room in the chassis to drop in a Jag engine and appropriate transmission, and leave the Miata subframes. That way the builder can decide.

jrw1621 wrote: I think Spec Locost may be the answer. Every guy here wants a Locost but is either not sure where to start or which way to take the build. If you had a Spec frame and could source the parts from one single Miata you may be on to something.

I was going to suggest something like this. I'd love a Miata-based Locost, but a frame-body-kit would be a more realistic base than trying to design the whole thing and we weld together a bunch of tubes.

There is some crazy company that Car Craft keeps writing articles about that reconditions Mustang bodies (usually starting with an averagely rusted hulk) and makes them into whatever (coupe, fastback, convertible) for like 10K. Find crazy guys that have a good rapport like that, get them to give you a discount, make various lengths of backbone for the Miata chassis and get a few ideas on how to make some cheap, easily manipulatable fender flares, and leave the bodies up to the purchaser within a few good choices. Personally, I'd do a Datsun Roadster. Someone else might like an Alfa. You could pretty easily source reasonably cheap body donors with VINs and go from there. Get an online configurator going like the OEMs have and make it crazy interactive and you could have them spec it out online. A big deposit to get the body and the Miata donor pieces together and they pay the rest when you ship with all of the overpriced options they threw in there. It could work. Don't forget, the Lotud 11 wasn;t all that iconic before the kit car, maybe the chicken comes before the egg to a certain extent and you can create the next Cobra.

dyintorace wrote: Never been a big MG-TD fan. I would go more in the direction of either a racy looking coupe (like the aforementioned Alfa) or a sexy racer type (like the Jag from Keith or a Lotus 11-ish). At least from my perspective, these two would have more appeal (and track-ability) than a TD type.

I agree. Just wanted to highlight that there is a Factory 5 style one donor kit out there based on a Miata.

I've pondered some of these same ideas. The more conventional idea is a small Track T style rod using the Miata front and rear suspension. Something along the proportions of the Zipper Motors cars with the track nose on them.

Do something like what Keith was saying about moving the engine back on the mounts to make a longer wheelbase. But take it a step further.

Instead of using the stock front suspension cradle, just use the suspension bits. Make the mounting points part of the chassis. That could be done to clean up the front end's appearance. Might work for a Locost too.

Using this illustration, loose #5 and make all the other bits attach to a tube frame instead. Ditch the #1 shock/spring combo for some more attractive aftermarket coilovers.

The Miata motor can be dressed to look more vintage. Would take some work, but could be made to look more like a vintage Offy.

The rear suspension isn't as attractive as a vintage Jag piece, but making the mounting points part of the rear chassis could clean it up too.

The other completely demented idea I had was for a Meyers Manx style body on a chassis designed for the Miata goodies. Locate the radiator in the back with an electric fan. Bruce's new Kick Out body has a tilt bonnet. Not sure if it could all be packaged in there without destroying the proportions. He might even be up for a collaborative effort.

Keith, in a previous thread (http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/miata-based-locost/9442/page1/) much of this was discussed, so I discovered. The good news is my thoughts were the same then.

In that thread, you mentioned Mark Rivera's build. I went and checked that out again and love the idea of this body! It would certainly be track focused, but so is a Lotus One Eleven!

I've been thinking about this question all day and was wondering what type of car I would want. While there are some good looking cars that everybody has been posting for inspiration, none of these have fallen into the "OMG I must have that car where do I send my money!?!?"

Then I started thinking about what cars GRM and CS has listed as the most influential/new classics.

I believe for this to be a profitable venture you would have to look to what cars are desirable and collectible now but solid examples are few and far between. Things like 510's and AE86's are highly desirable but unmolested examples are somewhat rare.

I would personally love to build a Trueno kit car without having to deal with the rust issues of a real one.

Now these type of cars are somewhat pedestrian in looks but they are what are being collected now. They don't have the sexy lines of a Alfa but for me a clean 510 will turn my head more than a FF Cobra any day. As more people get older and start having more expendable income these are what they will start looking for.

I don't disagree with your thoughts Marty!. However, I wonder if kits for 510's or AE86's would be easier if not hemmed in by the constraints of Miata underpinnings.

Your notion goes along with Tuna%%'s thoughts above regarding which came first, the chicken or the egg. Creating a kit for cars that aren't necessarily today's tried and true ideas might be the way to go.

I don't agree that the Lotus 11 wasn't iconic before the kit came along. It won Le Mans! The kit came 20 years later, because the original was an icon.

Keep in mind the expected price of completion. I think FF says it's just under $20k for one of their kits. Now think about cars like the AE86 or the 510 - is it worth spending $20k on a copy? Not now. Maybe in 40 years, and then we'll adapt them to run on Mr Fusions.

agreed, at least for this market, it has to be something iconic and rare. leave the Miata86's and Mazda 510s to people with lots of disposible income, time, tubing, and processing power at the local CAD station, it's too easy to pick up an actual AE86 or an actual 510 and mod it to your heart's desire. old sports racers or FR rally/saloon cars, however, especially euro-market ones, are iconic, rare as hens teeth in the US, and are generally very striking visually. even that IMSA Monza I linked to could fall into that category because there were not many of them made and at least for me are the first car I think of when I think 1970s IMSA competition. By that same measuring stick, an Audi Quattro S1 rally car, or any of the other old front engine AWD rally cars are possibilities, but then there's the wrong number of wheels spinning. it's a really hard choice to decide on a car to replicate that hasn't either been replicated into the ground or would require a LOT of visual or mechanical reworking to replicate, that would actually be worth the time and effort to replicate

If you are going to do a body of something still out there in quantities and prices that many could afford then you need to do it up differently. Do what would be hard or expensive to do or mod on the original. Box Flares make everything tasty, right?

Please stop me if I am wrong, but what is the point of a Miata based Locost?

Wasn't the whole point to take a non-sports cheap car and turn it into a killer sports car?

People have done the Miata thing with limited success.

I think one of the most impressive designs is this one. But at $8K for the body kit it is expensive. Simpson Design

The point of a Miata-based Locost is that it's a Locost you can build without fighting with drifters over the carcass of an AE86

The Simpson body kits (the Italia you pictured is going out of production) is a fibreglass overlay for the stock body along with a couple of replacement parts. It'll be heavier than the original and still retains the easily-spotted windshield frame, interior and doors. It's like a Ferrari GTO kit for a 240Z.

But the Miata's suspension setup can be easily extracted and dropped under another car that looks very little like a Miata. If you want to build a full-on kit (as opposed to sticking a body kit on a car, like the Italia), that makes life a lot easier.

Keith wrote: The point of a Miata-based Locost is that it's a Locost you can build without fighting with drifters over the carcass of an AE86 The Simpson body kits (the Italia you pictured is going out of production) is a fibreglass overlay for the stock body along with a couple of replacement parts. It'll be heavier than the original and still retains the easily-spotted windshield frame, interior and doors. It's like a Ferrari GTO kit for a 240Z. But the Miata's suspension setup can be easily extracted and dropped under another car that looks very little like a Miata. If you want to build a full-on kit (as opposed to sticking a body kit on a car, like the Italia), that makes life a lot easier.

And $8k for a fiberglass overlay seems like a lot of money!

I've been wanting to build a kit car for years. I just havn't decided which one lights my fire. Almost ordered a FFR Coupe but changed my mind. The Cobra is a really cool car but now they're everywhere. I want something different, something you don't see.

The 510 idea won't work. I have 2 and won't have anywhere close to $20k in both cars put together.

I really like the Jag C-Type or D-Type (heavy on the D-type). You build a Miata bassed Jag kit with avaialiblity for different engines and trans and I'll buy it.

Another idea I had was a Morgan +4

An Triumph TR3

maybe a MGA

or how about a Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger

I know all of my suggestions are still reasonably found (except maybe the Morgan) but to have one with modern running gear and that handle well would be a plus.

If you want to kit up an existing car with miata underpinnings I say first gen RX7. Yeah it's wrong in many ways, but with a turbo kit it could be cool.

+1 for the TR3 and the Tiger...both are great looking cars IMHO. Im also gonna toss the early Honda S Roadster back in the ring...

Keith wrote: The point of a Miata-based Locost is that it's a Locost you can build without fighting with drifters over the carcass of an AE86 The Simpson body kits (the Italia you pictured is going out of production) is a fibreglass overlay for the stock body along with a couple of replacement parts. It'll be heavier than the original and still retains the easily-spotted windshield frame, interior and doors. It's like a Ferrari GTO kit for a 240Z. But the Miata's suspension setup can be easily extracted and dropped under another car that looks very little like a Miata. If you want to build a full-on kit (as opposed to sticking a body kit on a car, like the Italia), that makes life a lot easier.

I agree, the Italia, which I read is going out of production this year (is he selling the molds?) is a beautiful body for a miata. But the price is astronomical for a kit.

I like the thought of a Sunbeam or a TR3. I would say Austin Healy but wasn't that a kit that was popular and then died?

I think a well done Miata body replacement kit would sell well if it was attractive, durable and reasonably light.

If I was doing a kit, (famous last words) I would base it on a small truck power train. Ranger/B-Series or S-10/Colorado/Canyon/Pup (did I miss one on the GM train there?) They are plentiful, cheap, and with a decent power to weight ratio and the gobs (comparatively) of torque they would be a great little kit.

IRS in the front and solid axle in the rear with a width that is serviceable for the kit industry.

Toyota 2000.

Oooo, the Healey 100/4. That might work. It's gorgeous, came with a 4-cylinder, is gorgeous, has the right wheelbase and some think it's rather pretty. The Miata is a bit wider, but a good body could mask that. A "Six" body could be an option.

The suggestion to offer a replica of the Morgan +4 made me laugh. Morgan will sell you a brand new one if you'd like.

In reply to Keith:

And the Healey has seen it's share of the race track.

Perhaps make a copy of a very desireable, but rare, healey?? Healey Sebring? Or something like that- rare enough to be hard to come by or see, but one that has won it's fair share of races.

That is a pretty car!

And a coupe could be an option too!

Good call on the Toyota 2000GT, Ian

It's interesting to see the number of calls for Japanese classics, even if some of them are still fairly recent. You just don't see Japanese replicas.

Keith wrote: It's interesting to see the number of calls for Japanese classics, even if some of them are still fairly recent. You just don't see Japanese replicas.

Yet. I'm sure it will happen eventually.

How about watching the auctions for a few months and seeing what fits the mentioned criteria AND goes for crazy money? That might (or might not) be an indication of which way to go.

How about a Trabant? Its iconic, hard to get here, and has a coupe body....

Just sayin'