T.J. wrote: So, Boxters are not in the $30,000-40,000 price range already? Wow. Seems to me a Boxster is a $25-30k car at best. I'm scared to google them to see what they sell for.
Base Boxster MSRP is $48.1k
T.J. wrote: So, Boxters are not in the $30,000-40,000 price range already? Wow. Seems to me a Boxster is a $25-30k car at best. I'm scared to google them to see what they sell for.
Base Boxster MSRP is $48.1k
T.J. wrote: So, Boxters are not in the $30,000-40,000 price range already? Wow. Seems to me a Boxster is a $25-30k car at best. I'm scared to google them to see what they sell for.
Really? What other manufacturer currently makes a 310HP drop-top with RWD (let alone mid-engine), that does 0-60 in 5 flat and tops out at 170MPH for under $59K? (That'd be the plain vanilla Boxster S btw).
As for the questions here, Porsche has almost always had a "lesser" model (356 Standard, 912, 914, 924, 944, Boxster, etc) so it's not like it's heresy, especially compared to say, making a 3-ton SUV...
It does need to have a flat-4 though (says the I-4 944 owner). If it's a normal VAG I-4 in there it will bomb.
Javelin wrote:T.J. wrote: So, Boxters are not in the $30,000-40,000 price range already? Wow. Seems to me a Boxster is a $25-30k car at best. I'm scared to google them to see what they sell for.Really? What other manufacturer currently makes a 310HP drop-top with RWD (let alone mid-engine), that does 0-60 in 5 flat and tops out at 170MPH for under $59K? (That'd be the plain vanilla Boxster S btw).
BMW Z4. Nissan 370Z. Ford Mustang. Chevrolet Camaro. Chevrolet Corvette. MINI JCW convertible? Audi TTS or TTRS?
Javelin said: As for the questions here, Porsche has almost always had a "lesser" model (356 Standard, 912, 914, 924, 944, Boxster, etc) so it's not like it's heresy, especially compared to say, making a 3-ton SUV... It does need to have a flat-4 though (says the I-4 944 owner). If it's a normal VAG I-4 in there it will bomb.
I wish the next 991 would come with a 912 version. The original 912 is really a brilliant car. The 356 Super 90 engine was a great engine and provided nearly as much power as the first gen flat six.
I think the VAG I-4 will work just fine. The majority of owners don't have a clue what kind of engine is in there anyway, its not like they can perform their own maintenance.
Maroon92 wrote:Javelin wrote:BMW Z4. Nissan 370Z. Ford Mustang. Chevrolet Camaro. Chevrolet Corvette. MINI JCW convertible? Audi TTS or TTRS?T.J. wrote: So, Boxters are not in the $30,000-40,000 price range already? Wow. Seems to me a Boxster is a $25-30k car at best. I'm scared to google them to see what they sell for.Really? What other manufacturer currently makes a 310HP drop-top with RWD (let alone mid-engine), that does 0-60 in 5 flat and tops out at 170MPH for under $59K? (That'd be the plain vanilla Boxster S btw).Javelin said: As for the questions here, Porsche has almost always had a "lesser" model (356 Standard, 912, 914, 924, 944, Boxster, etc) so it's not like it's heresy, especially compared to say, making a 3-ton SUV... It does need to have a flat-4 though (says the I-4 944 owner). If it's a normal VAG I-4 in there it will bomb.I wish the next 991 would come with a 912 version. The original 912 is really a brilliant car. The 356 Super 90 engine was a great engine and provided nearly as much power as the first gen flat six. I think the VAG I-4 will work just fine. The majority of owners don't have a clue what kind of engine is in there anyway, its not like they can perform their own maintenance.
Sorry.. only the Vette applies. the Mustang 5.0 vert reachest 149. The Camaro Vert hits 155, the 370 160, and the Bimmer is electronically limited to 155.
People call the 912 and 914 "cheap" porsches.. but remember, they still cost more than your average car when you could still buy them new. They were only cheap when compared to the 911
Whether the top speed is over or under 170mph is irrelevant to me. The difference between 155 mph and 170+ mph (at least in the US) is bragging rights for those who buy a car so they can tell people how good they are.
I just have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to Boxsters....I hate the styling, mostly the fact that there is like 5 feet of car in front of the front wheels just for a frunk. Please let me be irrational in my dislike for them and do not try to convince me with facts. I understand they are fine cars, I just don't like them.
Maroon92 wrote:Javelin wrote:BMW Z4. Nissan 370Z. Ford Mustang. Chevrolet Camaro. Chevrolet Corvette. MINI JCW convertible? Audi TTS or TTRS?T.J. wrote: So, Boxters are not in the $30,000-40,000 price range already? Wow. Seems to me a Boxster is a $25-30k car at best. I'm scared to google them to see what they sell for.Really? What other manufacturer currently makes a 310HP drop-top with RWD (let alone mid-engine), that does 0-60 in 5 flat and tops out at 170MPH for under $59K? (That'd be the plain vanilla Boxster S btw).
Keep trying! Z4 35i is only 300HP for 3505 Lbs (the Boxster S is 2855Lbs), you have to step up to the $50K Z4 35is to get 335HP but a weight increase to 3505 Lbs. It can't do 0-60 in 5.0 nor go 170.
370Z is again not fast enough. 332HP is tied down by 3426Lbs. Can't do the 0-60 nor the top speed. The Infinti version is even worse (4103Lbs!!!).
You have to get the top-dog V8 versions of the Mustang or Camaro to get the same power-to-weight, but the handling will be far, far worse. The Camaro SS Vert weighs 4116 Lbs! The Mustang still has a solid rear axle (albeit a great one), and has been proven to be slower than a Boxster on the same track many times over.
The Audi's only come as FF-setup AWD's with autos, but even then the $50K TTRS is only 265HP for a portly 3395Lbs. MINI JCW is FWD, so no dice.
Corvette is the only one to realistically come close. 3221Lbs isn't bad, the suspension is great, and 426HP makes it faster. It's $54,500 to start for the convertible though, so they really end up being the same price (and then you're stuck with those horrible seats!). Step up to the Grand Sport for the real track goodies and you're in 911 money.
The Mustang's suspension was overhauled in '10 -- and with the new 5.0 engine the '11 GT is serious business. And when you consider that even the Boss 302 can be had for under $40K, the Boxter/Cayman twins start to look seriously overpriced. Porsche really needs a model that can play in the sub-$40K segment.
T.J. wrote: Whether the top speed is over or under 170mph is irrelevant to me. The difference between 155 mph and 170+ mph (at least in the US) is bragging rights for those who buy a car so they can tell people how good they are. I just have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to Boxsters....I hate the styling, mostly the fact that there is like 5 feet of car in front of the front wheels just for a frunk. Please let me be irrational in my dislike for them and do not try to convince me with facts. I understand they are fine cars, I just don't like them.
not for the "frunk" but for the radiators. They sit in front of the wheels. The Frunk is just a happy coincidence of needing all that room for cooling
Oh boy, it's apples and oranges time! I have to agree that comparing the length of your Johnson....I mean top speed is just silly.
I don't see a modern 914/912 as good business. If Porsche shares a platform with another marque they dilute the brand. And if the "economy" model is too fast, it makes their other offerings look bad. All this for a tiny market with low profit margins? I don't think so.
Too bad though. There are so many juicy posibilities out there. One angle that could make sense by virtue of it's sheer uniquness would be a TDI sportscar. Think of the prestige they would get from having a 45 MPG rocket. It'd be the car of choice for the sportscar enthusiast who wants to duck the self-indulgence tag and pick up grown-up hippie chicks!
Here's an easy alternative view.
Would you buy one new?
If not enough people say "yes", then p is making a bad choice. If you have the cash, and are ready to go along with 20k more people, along with the 80k more people for all the rest of the cars, it's a good decision.
IMHO, Porsche does not need to expand. They need to concentrate on making money. Adding volume that much outside of your normal market risks dilluting an already dilluted brand (an SUV P car, really?). Growth can be at market growth- this is not a new industry, but a very mature one where the market grows based on cars being taken off the road + population (looking very long term). Focus on the core, focus on making more money.
As much as the 911 is a caraciture, it still makes oodles of money.
But thats just me. Leave the 45mpg rockets to MINI, VW, or Renault. Unless P wants a legendary small car to start marketing.....
In reply to mad_machine:
The radiator in my miata sits in front of the front wheels, but the bodywork doesn't extend 5 feet in front of the wheels. Must be some F-350 dually sized radiator in the Boxster.
Again, not saying the Boxster is bad, just saying I do not like it. Kreb got my original point restated without igniting a spirited boxster defense. Making a VW and calling it a Porsche has been tried before. Making a low end Porsche that can keep up with or outperform the higher level models has been done before. Neither were good ideas, and I'm not sure how this would be.
The Boxster may be a great car, but only used. The depreciation on those is horrible compared to any other Porsche. That seems like good evidence that they're overpriced - or at least undervalued in the market!
nono.. when I saw the radiator is in front of the wheels.. it is in FRONT of the wheels. It is not in the middle of car (I think the S has a small one there) but they are quite literally under the headlights, pivoted at an angle
dculberson wrote: The Boxster may be a great car, but only used. The depreciation on those is horrible compared to any other Porsche. That seems like good evidence that they're overpriced - or at least undervalued in the market!
The same can be said for just about every new car on the market.
Not a 911.
Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote:dculberson wrote: The Boxster may be a great car, but only used. The depreciation on those is horrible compared to any other Porsche. That seems like good evidence that they're overpriced - or at least undervalued in the market!The same can be said for just about every new car on the market.
even the smart
I hope Porsche makes a re-badged X3...if nothing else, I hear they are good for light towing, carrying 4 people and some stuff, and have decent headroom.
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