Is Anyone Really Surprised?

I mean, really?

The FWD, twin-turbo machine that Nissan hoped would break Audi's LMP1 stranglehold will apparently not be coming back for 2016. Unique car? Certainly. But unique doesn't always equal good.

Old news... But who cares. The irony here is that Audi makes a FWD that spanks rwd and awd in its class. The stupid ugly TT. Nissan realizes there win in the 90's was a fluke and they won't be able to do it again unless the recreate the wheel. They basically keep doubling down when they should fold. I think Nissan needs to hit WRC hard and give us a new Bluebird Gti-r. The thing is, companies need to create buzz to generate brand enthusiasm. So why get keep getting knocked down by footballers when your game is basketball???

Certainly the engineering is beyond me, but I never got a concise answer as to why that car was supposed to be so revolutionary in the first place...

Trackmouse wrote: Nissan realizes there win in the 90's was a fluke and they won't be able to do it again unless the recreate the wheel.

Whaaaa? Nissan never won.

On topic, it was actually a surprise that they sacked everything. Even Porsche can't win their first year back, how the hell did Nissan think they could? Some of the program engineers learned of their unemployment via the press release. Nissan is now dead to me.

Javelin wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: Nissan realizes there win in the 90's was a fluke and they won't be able to do it again unless the recreate the wheel.

Whaaaa? Nissan never won. On topic, it was actually a surprise that they sacked everything. Even Porsche can't win their first year back, how the hell did Nissan think they could? Some of the program engineers learned of their unemployment via the press release. Nissan is now dead to me.

not lemans.. but they had good success in IMSA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_IMSA_GT_Championship_season

calteg wrote: Certainly the engineering is beyond me, but I never got a concise answer as to why that car was supposed to be so revolutionary in the first place...

Downforce is so high that the RWD/AWD has no advantage in cornering G's any more, Nissan could make a FWD car corner at the same speed/G-force. By going FF on the chassis layout, they could make the car aerodynamically cleaner/more efficient (giant tunnels) that maximized the effectiveness of the diffuser. Basically same cornering speed but higher potential top end because of less drag due to fundamental design layout. Their issues were basically in just general teething and the hybrid system. The basic concept actually works.

Javelin wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: Nissan realizes there win in the 90's was a fluke and they won't be able to do it again unless the recreate the wheel.

Whaaaa? Nissan never won. On topic, it was actually a surprise that they sacked everything. Even Porsche can't win their first year back, how the hell did Nissan think they could? Some of the program engineers learned of their unemployment via the press release. Nissan is now dead to me.

Especially considering Porsche's car was a bit more conventional. I kinda wonder what collective aneurysm hit everyone at Nissan. I mean, not making the iDX (i thought it was ugly, but everyone else wanted it) deciding to keep the R35 in production until 2020, suggesting that the Z will become an AWD crossover and the Murano CrossCabriolet.

Trackmouse wrote: The irony here is that Audi makes a FWD that spanks rwd and awd in its class. The stupid ugly TT.

I like the looks of the TT actually.

It'd be kinda funny if Audi picks up the FWD LMP concept and runs with it next year and wins. Long shot, but funny.

Javelin wrote:

calteg wrote: Certainly the engineering is beyond me, but I never got a concise answer as to why that car was supposed to be so revolutionary in the first place...

Downforce is so high that the RWD/AWD has no advantage in cornering G's any more, Nissan could make a FWD car corner at the same speed/G-force. By going FF on the chassis layout, they could make the car aerodynamically cleaner/more efficient (giant tunnels) that maximized the effectiveness of the diffuser. Basically same cornering speed but higher potential top end because of less drag due to fundamental design layout. Their issues were basically in just general teething and the hybrid system. The basic concept actually works.

Awesome, thank you. I read a lengthy article when Nissan was first designing the thing. Got done and still had no idea why the FF design was advantageous

Trackmouse wrote: I think Nissan needs to hit WRC hard and give us a new Bluebird Gti-r.

The WRC rules not only don't require a road version, but non-production engines are allowed as well - you can either use a stock block engine or you can build something with a certain bore center/deck height/other fixed dimensions. IIRC the Volkswagen WRC engine is not production based... basically the only production bits are some of the bodyshell.

The rules are set up this way to get more manufacturers involved, specifically so that they don't have to tool up road cars just to meet rally specifications. FIA doesn't want the situation they used to have with 3 manufacturers in WRC, 2 manufacturers in Group N, so they leveled the playing field by eliminating homologations.

Oddly enough I think the Fiesta ST is the closest thing to a WRC road car, spec wise. It's a 1.6l direct injected turbo four and the Fiesta WRC actually looks somewhat like the production shell. Not AWD but given the spec transmission, that isn't necessary anyway...

Trackmouse wrote: So why get keep getting knocked down by footballers when your game is basketball???

Nissan's game is no longer basketball. It's sweater knitting or something. CVT all the things. They call the Maxima a 4 Door Sports Car. They have animated commercials of their cars because they're so berkeleying boring to drive. They put Hipster McBeardy in a wrapped Altima and convince him its a racecar because he's an idiot.

On another forum someone said it best. Nissan makes Camrys. They make SUV Camrys. They make crossover Camrys. They make 2 and 4 door Camrys. They make minivan Camrys.

They are not an enthusiast brand anymore.

flatlander937 wrote: Nissan's game is no longer basketball. It's sweater knitting or something. CVT all the things. They call the Maxima a 4 Door Sports Car.

You make good points and I'ma let you finish, but Nissan has called the Maxima a "4 door sports car" for ALL TIME.

(No, really, they used to have "4DSC" stickers in the rear quarter windows in the late 80s)

flatlander937 wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: So why get keep getting knocked down by footballers when your game is basketball???

Nissan's game is no longer basketball. It's sweater knitting or something. CVT all the things. They call the Maxima a 4 Door Sports Car. They have animated commercials of their cars because they're so berkeleying boring to drive. They put Hipster McBeardy in a wrapped Altima and convince him its a racecar because he's an idiot. On another forum someone said it best. Nissan makes Camrys. They make SUV Camrys. They make crossover Camrys. They make 2 and 4 door Camrys. They make minivan Camrys. They are not an enthusiast brand anymore.

This....wake me up when Nissan makes anything that a) isn't ugly b) doesn't come with CVT and c) isn't ugly. They had my attention for a minute with that Datsun 510 redux concept, and lost my attention the second that they decided not to make it.

Knurled wrote:

flatlander937 wrote: Nissan's game is no longer basketball. It's sweater knitting or something. CVT all the things. They call the Maxima a 4 Door Sports Car.

You make good points and I'ma let you finish, but Nissan has called the Maxima a "4 door sports car" for ALL TIME. (No, really, they used to have "4DSC" stickers in the rear quarter windows in the late 80s)

Difference being that the Maxima through about 2003 was more powerful and out-handled it's competitors (Accord, Camry, Taurus, etc) by a good margin, and looked sportier to boot. So the "4DSC" tag was somewhat legitimate (inasmuch as it could be in a FWD sedan). From 2004 on the Maxima was just a bloated luxo-cruiser that didn't drive or look sporty at all.....

The 4DSC stickers were on the 3rd generation (1988-94). The J30 chassis was legitimate for that tag....V6 when most of its competitors only offered fours. Independent suspension on all four, a LSD on some models, and a ton of them sold with 5MTs. They ditched the sticker until putting it on the latest chassis, which was a joke on a car that only came in CVT flavor

Knurled wrote:

flatlander937 wrote: Nissan's game is no longer basketball. It's sweater knitting or something. CVT all the things. They call the Maxima a 4 Door Sports Car.

You make good points and I'ma let you finish, but Nissan has called the Maxima a "4 door sports car" for ALL TIME. (No, really, they used to have "4DSC" stickers in the rear quarter windows in the late 80s)

Ah did not know it was in use for that long.

Either way... CVT... Heavy... Ugly... Does not a sports car make.

The ONLY Nissan product I like are the 4dr G37s... The 2drs are OK looking but the sedans just look classier. Those are moreso a 4 door sports car than a Maxima. Especially since available manual trans.

I'll bet their garage slots were yanked in favor of the Ford GT effort....

OR Nissan decided they were thoroughly embarrassed by their performance.....they basically had a LMP1 Hybrid that couldn't keep pace with LMP2 cars.

I know very little about the non-grassroots world of LeMans nowadays but re. Nissan I did see an awful lot of Nissan engined cars on the list of running cars at one point. Kinda reminded of the Cosworth engine in Formula One from way back. Can't be doing that badly.

WOW Really Paul? wrote: I'll bet their garage slots were yanked in favor of the Ford GT effort.... OR Nissan decided they were thoroughly embarrassed by their performance.....they basically had a LMP1 Hybrid that couldn't keep pace with LMP2 cars.

It was designed as a hybrid, but they couldn't get the hybrid system working well enough to use it at all, so they ran the entire race as a 500-600hp FWD P1, instead of a 1000-1200hp AWD car that it was designed to be. That's a pretty huge handicap to overcome.

I think the design showed promise, but they were let down by the flywheel based KERS system they chose. With all of the tech available form the LEAF, and their previous ZEOD car, I'm surprised they opted to go that route. It would've been cool to see what they were capable of with similar power/efficiency to their competitors.

Knurled wrote:

flatlander937 wrote: Nissan's game is no longer basketball. It's sweater knitting or something. CVT all the things. They call the Maxima a 4 Door Sports Car.

You make good points and I'ma let you finish, but Nissan has called the Maxima a "4 door sports car" for ALL TIME. (No, really, they used to have "4DSC" stickers in the rear quarter windows in the late 80s)

When they had those stickers they were close to 4 Door Sports Cars. Now I'd rather have a Camry.