Is Hooning in a snowy parking lot illegal?

In reply to N Sperlo:

When they set up a radar at the end of a down hill thats exactly what it is ENTRAPMENT. I do like the word when it properly describes the situation.

You don't have brakes on your car?

Back on topic - I've taken my wife (then girlfriend) into a parking lot where she spent time getting familiar with RWD (E30) in the snow. No issues from the locals.

On the other hand, I have been (very slowly) 'chased' out by mall security. I never go fast, I stay away from fixed objects, and I don't linger. It is a LOT of fun to have you 2 1/2 yr old son ask "do it again"! :)

egoman wrote: In reply to N Sperlo: When they set up a radar at the end of a down hill thats exactly what it is ENTRAPMENT. I do like the word when it properly describes the situation.

"Entrapment" suggest a LEO coerced you into committing a crime. Unless you're suggesting either Isaac Newton or gravity is a police officer, I believe your definition of entrapment to be incorrect.

In reply to N Sperlo:

Sorry bud we will have to agree to disagree.

N Sperlo wrote:

egoman wrote: In reply to N Sperlo: When they set up a radar at the end of a down hill thats exactly what it is ENTRAPMENT. I do like the word when it properly describes the situation.

"Entrapment" suggest a LEO coerced you into committing a crime. Unless you're suggesting either Isaac Newton or gravity is a police officer, I believe your definition of entrapment to be incorrect.

Agreed on the entrapment part, but I think what he was meaning to say is something along the lines of passive vs active patrolling, or in other words, lazy vs participating, IE- Notice how the traps always seem to happen during certain times and areas within the month? You can just about set your watch to it.

aussiesmg wrote: Let me see, hooning equals fun so therefore it is illegal. OK, just joking you guys, damn fun police.

A very astute observation. Remember boys and girls, Its only illegal if you get caught!

In reply to Ranger50:

That should make it easy to avoid. On my ride home from work there are three places where the like to hide. They are the three places I do the speed limit.

Edit, forgot to put this. In NY most things that apply to public roads apply can be enforced in parking lots. An easy way to determine if something may be illegal is replace parking lot with my front lawn. If someone you didn't know was doing donuts in the snow on your front lawn would you expect them to be ticketed?

In reply to Ranger50:

I have friends who are traffic officers, and yes, even I don't agree with their methods sometimes, but what is legal is legal. That being said, as unfair as it may appear, speeding is speeding, reckless driving is reckless driving, as TRoglodyte put it, "Its only illegal if you get caught," but if he gets you, you're caught. Idon't age with all methods of law enforcement. In addition, most the officers (around here at least) that are actively enforcing traffic law are paid to do so, therefore passive enforcement isn't quite an option.

My only point on the whole issue, entrapment is illegal. I'd never suggest accusing someone of a crime unless you are very sure their guilty of it, and how can you do that if you don't know the definition of the accusation. That is all.

Very good example, Wally.

Don't involve me for just attempting to clarify a clear as mud point. Or is it more to the point in saying opportunistic vs participating? I'm not saying or agreeing it is fair, but the fishing expeditions some of these officers play should land them the Loch Ness Monster or a Tony Award for Best Leading shiny happy person in a Dramatic production.

In reply to Ranger50:

You know me better than that. I don't argue with people, I make examples of them.

I kid, I kid.

But really, I'm not arguing, I'm debating, and not with you. I agree with you. I hold nothing against ego, either. I just totally disagree.

kazoospec wrote: Actually, FWD, steering wheel locked over to one side, reverse donuts are pretty fun too . . . or, so I've heard.

Ive only done that with my fukus.....but it was the first time I bought it in 2004. And it was on dry pavement. Practicing j-turns, handbrake 180's and such.....cops were called and weren't happy....didn't get a ticket though.

egoman wrote: In reply to N Sperlo: Sorry bud we will have to agree to disagree.

Go ahead and disagree.

Tell it to the judge. He's doesn't really care what your opinion is.

If you are speeding, in ANY area (including going down a hill), you are speeding, and it is therefore NOT entrapment.

Why shouldn't officers set up radar where it is more likely to catch people acting illegally?

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Just tell him you are trying to learn car control an be safe.

I took my son out when he was on his permit first snow we had for exactly this reason. Didn't leave until he had the whole counter steering thing down. Didn't see any police, but was prepared to explain exactly what I was doing if they showed up.

Seems to me that it's the responsible thing to do, and I don't mean that as a joke. Much better to learn it in an empty parking lot than on the street as you hit another car and say "oh, now I get it!"

Just like autocrossing, the liability for any accidents, injury, or property damage could fall on the property owner. The reason it is hard to find a location for clubs to autocross is that most property owners do not want the liability.

Can you be certain, for example that there are no potholes, drains, standpipes, etc. under the snow?

Just like trespassing or vandalism, police certainly have the right to charge you for reckless driving, trespassing, etc. on private property.

Option #1- use your own property. Want to hoon in a parking lot? Buy a parking lot.

Option #2- get the property owner's permission.

Option #3- take the chance, attempt to be nice to the officer, and accept the consequences if things don't work out for you.

FWIW, I usually take Option #3.

TRoglodyte wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: Let me see, hooning equals fun so therefore it is illegal. OK, just joking you guys, damn fun police.

A very astute observation. Remember boys and girls, Its only illegal if you get caught!

You're not guilty until the judge signs off on the paperwork!

Back to snow-hooning!

I have my own business and a decent sized lot so I always try to get there in the morning before the snow removal guys show up. It's private property and of course I own it so I can do donuts until my hearts content. The plow guy always laughs when he shows up and sees my "art work". Boy does it feel good.

i don't need an empty parking lot for winter time hoonage- i literally can't drive 5 miles in any direction from my house without running into at least 2 lakes, and once they freeze over they make for the mostest bestest hooning sites you will ever find- cops aren't allowed to drive their patrol cars out there.. just stay away from the parts where the water is still in liquid form, and keep in mind that snow drifts are not only almost invisible in the bright mid day sun but can be damn near as hard as concrete and you will get air when you hit one when you aren't ready for it..

I pulled onto the private street this morning and pulled the hand brake. Perfectly legal. Nuff said?

Feedyurhed wrote: I have my own business and a decent sized lot so I always try to get there in the morning before the snow removal guys show up. It's private property and of course I own it so I can do donuts until my hearts content. The plow guy always laughs when he shows up and sees my "art work". Boy does it feel good.

has a Po-Po ever pulled in and asked you what you were doing ?

well, technically, a po po can't pull you over unless he has reasonable suspicion that youre breaking the law, and also technically, he can't accost you on private property without a warrant.

So it would be a pretty stupid po po that would drive onto private property to pull over the landowner. I could get that ticket tossed in fewer seconds than it takes a yugo to go from 0-60 on an ice road.

andrave wrote: well, technically, a po po can't pull you over unless he has reasonable suspicion that youre breaking the law, and also technically, he can't accost you on private property without a warrant. So it would be a pretty stupid po po that would drive onto private property to pull over the landowner. I could get that ticket tossed in fewer seconds than it takes a yugo to go from 0-60 on an ice road.

so you'd never get that ticket tossed?

What is this snow stuff y'all are talking about?

In reply to N Sperlo:

Thats how I pull into my driveway in the tight suburb snow covered side streets of the D.

N Sperlo wrote: You are welcome to your opinion, but entrapment is a serious crime

And speeding is not a crime

93EXCivic wrote: What is this snow stuff y'all are talking about?

Think slippery Kudzu.