Is it time to say goodbye to the manual transmission?

Must be nice to live in flat areas where other drivers on the road respect follow distance and don't pull right onto your bumper at every single stop sign and red light. 

But frankly I'm over manuals, especially as daily drivers. Stop n go traffic, stops on hills with dipE36 M3s so close you can barely see them in the rear view mirror which is basically every hill around here, not being able to just hand someone else the keys, I'm over it. 

If another miata comes my way absolutely need the stick because it doesn't have the power to move itself with an automatic, but that's the exception to the rule for me. And with the way NA prices are heading, I'll probably never get a third one so it's a moot point. 

But this whole mentality here of "give me manual or give me death" is ridiculous. Especially as the people espousing it are getting older and slower, so it's not even a performance advantage anymore, just something to grumble about and pretend it makes you superior in some way. 

For my fun cars, I want a manual transmission.  I do not care what is better or faster.  There is always a car that is better or faster than your car.  That doesn't make it more fun to me.  
 

My current daily is an 18 Civic Si.  I've thought about new pony cars, an ND, a Vette, or a used P car as replacements but only with an M6 or M7. 

I gave this topic a thumbs down.  

Chris_V said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to BA5 :

Straw man. No one here is saying a manual is the ONLY thing that makes a car sporty/sporting. You're making up arguments that don't exist.

No strawman. This forum has been FULL of people saying directly that "in an automatic car you're just a passenger." "Automatic cars are for non drivers," and "manuals are the only way of getting driving enjoyment," as the same car with an automatic/DSG supposedly doesn't provide that. Even YOU said a car with an automatic is just a "soulless commuting device." Getting so tired of that sort of insulting, closed minded bullE36 M3.

Examples, please.

Here is why I have a manual as a daily:

I am the ADD poster kid.....it gives me something to do and helps me stay focused. With an automatic I find myself way less focused.

Conversely it's also a distraction of sorts; part of ADD is low frustration tolerance...........having to row the box takes my mind off the fact that traffic is moving slowly........thereby keeping me calmer.

I'm obviously not opposed to  automatics, seeing as my tow vehicle has one and one of the cars I race has a CVT but from a sensory standpoint I still like the manual gearbox better. If I do get a newer F500/F600 I am looking at a motorcycle engine car. 

I've driven manual vehicles, including farm equipment that was manufactured before many if not most of us were born, and daily drove my old Miata for 19 years/194,000 miles until a distracted driver destroyed it and the vehicles of two other people.

I loved the inputs with that Miata and honestly thought it would be my last or "forever" car.  And then it was demolished.

So when looking for a replacement, there weren't too many manuals being offered and some of those I looked at offered vague, rubbery, shifting and such feather-light clutches that I didn't really know at what point during the pedal travel that the clutch engaged.

So I went to The Dark Side and bought a 2019 GTi with a DSG and haven't looked back.  I know with a "mod this" and a "mod that," gearbox and clutch feel can be improved, but I suppose if you add enough rose petals you can make any log of poo smell a bit better.  
 

Or I could just buy a car that is better designed from the factory than it's manual version ... which of course is just my opinion.  I understand the dissenting opinions.  I'm also glad to have options in the dwindling market for such things as electrification spreads.

Anyway, just a few thoughts, no one is "right or wrong" on these topics.  Have a good one!

I always want to choose my own gears and still find H-patterns to be the most fun, but the performance advantage of DCTs or even flappy-paddle slushboxes has really been in my face recently...to say nothing of EVs that have far less use for multiple gears.

Is it time to say goodbye to the manual? For new cars, purely from a performance standpoint, yes. The manual has gone from being the fun, thrifty, reliable, fast, and efficient option to being the fun, thrifty, reliable, but slightly slower option.

Personally, I'll probably only say goodbye the manual when it's time to say goodbye to the ICE and embrace grip-limited EV acceleration. And I expect H-pattern manuals will be around until then, all indications are that we should expect demand for new manuals to increase as the customer base for new cars shifts from boomers to millennials.

bobzilla said:

In reply to BA5 :

Straw man. No one here is saying a manual is the ONLY thing that makes a car sporty/sporting. You're making up arguments that don't exist.

Not at all. You yourself in the very first post in this very thread note that manuals are the only thing keeping us from "mass depression and soulless commuting vehicles".

Just checking in to make sure everyone’s being kind and respectful here.

I always felt that dct's and autos's are underrated in the sports car scene. They're not much slower around a track and are way more leisurely to drive. My cavalier is an auto and i can still have fun with it even if i cant push it as hard as a manual.

I'm doubling down and removing my syncronizers. I don't need this new age nanny stuff anymore.

BA5 said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to BA5 :

Straw man. No one here is saying a manual is the ONLY thing that makes a car sporty/sporting. You're making up arguments that don't exist.

Not at all. You yourself in the very first post in this very thread note that manuals are the only thing keeping us from "mass depression and soulless commuting vehicles".

No. Not the only thing. PLease show your work. 

David S. Wallens said:

Just checking in to make sure everyone’s being kind and respectful here.

They're not but when you start a click bait thread what else do you expect? 

Chris_V said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to BA5 :

Straw man. No one here is saying a manual is the ONLY thing that makes a car sporty/sporting. You're making up arguments that don't exist.

No strawman. This forum has been FULL of people saying directly that "in an automatic car you're just a passenger." "Automatic cars are for non drivers," and "manuals are the only way of getting driving enjoyment," as the same car with an automatic/DSG supposedly doesn't provide that. Even YOU said a car with an automatic is just a "soulless commuting device." Getting so tired of that sort of insulting, closed minded bullE36 M3.

That's ok, I'm tired of your condescending bullE36 M3 so I guess that makes us even? 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm doubling down and removing my syncronizers. I don't need this new age nanny stuff anymore.

Ironically for track driving I prefer a non synchro dog box as found in most formula cars.

Why ? Because once you leave the pit lane you can go up and down through the box without the clutch. The added plus is left foot braking is both faster and offers the driver more options for balancing the car.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

Chris_V said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to BA5 :

Straw man. No one here is saying a manual is the ONLY thing that makes a car sporty/sporting. You're making up arguments that don't exist.

No strawman. This forum has been FULL of people saying directly that "in an automatic car you're just a passenger." "Automatic cars are for non drivers," and "manuals are the only way of getting driving enjoyment," as the same car with an automatic/DSG supposedly doesn't provide that. Even YOU said a car with an automatic is just a "soulless commuting device." Getting so tired of that sort of insulting, closed minded bullE36 M3.

Examples, please.

I just went through every response in this thread and not a single one of those comments was made, with the exception of my personal feelings on automatics in the first response, but even that was not the ONLY reason they were soulless commuters. But we won't let reality get in the way of some good condescention 

bobzilla said:

Chris_V said:

Getting so tired of that sort of insulting, closed minded bullE36 M3.

That's ok, I'm tired of your condescending bullE36 M3 so I guess that makes us even? 

You guys are playing with fire....

bobzilla said:

In reply to z31maniac :

You're missing the Forte GT and Civic Si. Both sporty and both offered with turbos and manuals for under $35k (civic $30,195 and the Forte GT $26,200)

EDIT: Apparently the Elantra N also falls under that $35k category at $34,015

After owning a "sporty" FWD car ('10 Speed3 purchased new, again putting my money where my mouth is when it comes to manuals), for me, personally, I'd rather have RWD. So I tend to forget the FWD offerings. 

Although I wouldn't mind driving a CTR down a curvy road or a 20-minute session at an HPDE. 

In reply to z31maniac :

Had both, I drive a FWD better. Doesn't make sense considering all teh time I spent on gravel roads with cop cars and pickups but thats the way it is.

ProDarwin said:

bobzilla said:

Chris_V said:

Getting so tired of that sort of insulting, closed minded bullE36 M3.

That's ok, I'm tired of your condescending bullE36 M3 so I guess that makes us even? 

You guys are playing with fire....

If it shuts down another E36 M3 show I'm ok with it. Click bait threads like this are not helping the community as a whole. MAybe it's driving in new customers or views, but it's not helping whats already here. 

I'd strongly prefer my fun cars to come with a manual tranny for the following reasons:

- it's more engagement, more fun, and in my own perception, provides more control

- it's more sturdy (than DSG), so it has higher longevity, and can usually withstand higher power when we up the engine power

- it's cheaper to maintain -- DGS requires $$$$ fluid changes

- the internals -- ie. clutch and flywheel -- are replaceable and upgradable

When the time comes for a single gear vehicle though -- hey EV, I'm looking at you -- then we don't even have to argue about MT vs auto / DSG

I am sure that there are people who swear that filling their icebox with cubes of ice is better than plugging in a refrigerator, and storing vinyl records in a cool, dry place is better than digital downloads, and riding a horse to work is more engaging than driving a car...but they are outliers. They enjoy nostalgia and the good old days, and don't mind missing out on the convenience and superiority of modern technology.  Nothing wrong with that, I enjoy riding a horse or going for a sail sometimes, but I don't want to get to work that way. And I don't want to hit the track or the autocross course without the benefits that my DSG provides.  I don't have to think about upshifting or downshifting, I never accidentally money-shift or pop out of gear, and shifts are faster and smoother. Plus, if I do want to grab a gear manually, I can do that. So for me, a DSG is the obvious choice for a DD or track toy or whatever. 

Don't get me wrong, I drove manuals for many, many years and I still love the interface of driving one, always will. To me, driving a manual on a back road is as enjoyable as anything can be. There is something very satisfying to me about being able to drive a stick, especially at speed. I hope that manual transmissions remain an option for enthusiasts who want them, but most likely they will be available on limited-production models at higher prices (think Porsche) or niche cars trying to set themselves apart (BRz) or on older cars. I hope that I have enough disposable income to keep a manual in the fleet for the occasional drive, just like some people want to have a horse, or a sailboat, or a horse-drawn wagon.  

Deep breaths.  It's OK to like both, seriously!

On the street, I slightly prefer the true manual, just because its fun, and you get to use it all the time.  On the rare occasion I'm exiting the interstate, the lights green, and there is no traffic, effortlessly dropping 2 gears under braking with a DCT and blasting through the turn is pretty rewarding too.  You just have to focus on what it is vs. what it isn't.

On the track, paddles are where it's at (I've never actually driven a non synchro dog box mentioned above) They are clearly faster.  That said, there is a place for a 3 pedal manual on the track too.  After all, Freestyle swimming is clearly faster than the Breaststroke,  but they are both Olympic events!  Different strokes for different folks - pun intended.

Bottom line get what you like, or better still, BOTH.

I have both manual and auto...5 cars, 4 of which are manual; 3 trucks, 2 of which are manual; and 2 motorcycles, both manual. Each has its place. The one car I daily drive the most is a manual. It's more enjoyable and that's the whole point. Yes I do hills and stop and go; it's not like it's that hard.

Not sure I get all the whining about hills and people parking close.  I don't think I've rolled backwards at a start in the last 20 years--it sounds like these are people who learned how to drive a manual well enough to get around, but not well enough to be proficient?

Has there even been a manual car for sale in the last decade that would *let* you roll backwards on a hill?  They all come with some sort of hill assist, now.  The one on my WRX was terrible because it wouldn't release fast enough, but both my modern cars (Focus RS and Tacoma) have a version that seems flawless.

I'm not even bothered by having to deal with stop-and-go traffic.  Sure, all the people in their automatics will creep forward on a torque convertor; I just leave enough space so that I can idle forward with the clutch engaged in first.  It's annoying, but no more annoying to me than having to drag the brakes against an auto...