Is Mazda Falling Behind the Curve or... . .

I was thinking last night. Mazda use to be the go to company for small fun cars. When the 3 and the 6 came out they were nice updates to there line but still in keeping with the Mazda brand. But now looking at there line up and it seems dated. Ford, KIA, hyundai in particular seem to be constantly updating and there cars look fresh.

Mazda also seems to be keeping there cars on the safe side of things technology wise. (not that this is a bad thing).

I can only assume that it is a plan that Mazda has and considering how successful they have been I an not saying that they are incorrect for playing it safe with there cars especially during the current economic climate.

I hope to make it to the NE Auto Show this year so I can see first hand what the new Mazda's are all about but I am thinking that they will be more of the same and quite honestly last year I was underwhelmed. The Mazda's at last years show were nothing more than appliances and poor examples of that at best compared to the offerings of the others. They felt cheep and even then there style was starting to feel dated. They had lost the "Zoom Zoom"

Then there is the Miata / MX5. Probably one of the most successful cares ever produced. But it is now more than 20 years old. Unfortunately the luster of that car is waring thin. I have got the feeling that Mazda has been riding the MX5 wave for the last 10 years and only offers other cars as a convenience. Don't get me wrong I like Miatas. Properly set up and in particular one that has been corner weighted is nothing short of sports car nirvana. And that is great but that is not the Mazda company that I knew. They seemed to always be pushing the envelope with technology as well as style with a keen ability to meld technology with form, function and good looks. Now I don't see that in there cars.

This makes me sad as I for won carried the Mazda banner high and proud for more than a decade. Having owned just about every iteration of RX7 (I never had an FD and the RX8). I thought the Miller Cycle engine that they produced for a while was an engineering marvel that I wish they had continued to pursue.

So does anyone have any insight in to what Mazda is doing? Is this a corporate plan? Are they just holding back waiting for everyone else to show there cards? Does anyone at GRM have connections at Mazda that they could ask? This could make a great article for GRM.

I don't know how successful Mazda has really been... i believe they've been on the verge of bankruptcy for years if i believe what i read on the internet.

Drive a new MX5 and then tell us the luster of the car is wearing thin. It's a superior car in almost every way to the Miatas of old, but it's a bit more serious business than the old cars. Some may say that makes it a worse Miata.

Yeah, they sold a boatload of Miatas, but those alone couldn't/wouldn't carry them. If you look at the production number of Miatas vs. everything else, i bet you'd be surprised. It's not as high of a percentage as you'd think. There's been almost as many RX7s made as Miatas.

Beyond that, i agree with you. The only 3 cars they've made in recent years that i gave a crap about were the Mazdaspeed6, the RX8, and the Miata. (Although i never liked the NC until the 2013 facelift.)

I'll take my new Miata in 2013 Sport PRHT flavor. Dolphin Grey, mocha leather interior, and with all the factory lips.

Please and thank you.

Remember, Zoom-Zoom was an ad campaign specific to the rebadged Ford Escape before it became the mantra of the company. There has always been some appliance in their line up.

I think that can be said of nearly all the Japanese brands, in particular Honda and Toyota. Toyota does have the FR-S now but Honda/Acura still seems to be (IMO) a bit lost. In fact I think Hyundai/Kia is what Honda was in the 80s/90s. As for Mazda, they have a newly restyled 6 which should be at the car shows now and a new Miata supposedly coming out in 2014, one that will share parts/platforms with an Alfa Romeo spider. Rumors also continue about a rotary powered RX7 in the future too. Should be interesting. So all is not lost with Mazda yet.

The overall problem is that most of us (probably all of us) here love sports cars and performance and the driving experience but in general other people don't. They want an isolated appliance with electronics and luxury features that they never have to think about and is completely reliable. In short they will take a touch screen over a 6 speed any day of the week. So naturally manufacturer's will tend to support the majority. So it's the buyers that are setting the tone.

Right now, Mazda is trying to figure out the market on their own without the help of Ford. It looks like they keeping things simple and trying to get back to basics. They are trying to balance making fuel efficient cars, but making them interesting enough that you'll actually want to drive the things. Essentially, they make appliances for enthusiasts.

For example, take the new Skyactiv 3. They took a car with a sharp handling chassis and bolted a powertrain in it that gets an honest 40mpg. It's the appliance for people who like to drive. If you put someone that thinks a car is just an appliance in a car like that (like my wife, LOL) they will be surprised at how much fun driving can be.

I think that after everything in the lineup has something fuel efficient, they will start to bring back the real sporty and fast stuff. I'd love them to bring back a Rotary-powered car, as well as a Mazdaspeed option in every lineup.

Give Mazda a year or two and they will be back in it.

They'll look disappointing at an autoshow - because the whole "zoom-zoom" thing refers to what they do on the road. The more money that's spent on chassis parts, the less is available for exterior or interior styling.

Go jump in a plain Mazda3 2.0SkyActiv and then drive any other compact car available today. If the car you drive after that happens to be a BMW 328i, you'll think the price tags have been reversed.

Their ad campaigns are focused in an odd direction. I've never seen a 5 in a commercial and never included in their financing specials. I think they could sell the crap out of their cars if they would advertise better.

in reply to dean.

i disagree with a lot of what you said. they are not particularly on the safe side of things technology wise(upcoming diesels, skyactiv's etc). the miller cycle engine was a bonehead idea they couldn't divest themselves of fast enough.
you may see "cheep" appliances, i personally found them competitive enough to have bought a new 3 earlier this year.

unfortunately the other thing i disagree with was your comment about how successful Mazda has been. i couldn't tell you how recently they've made money, but it's been awhile.

@belteshazzar . I did not know about the diesel. I want to be wrong. I like Mazda.

I've had a GLC, a re-badged B-4000 Ranger pickup, an MX-3, and my MSM, so I guess that puts me in the camp of someone who only dabbles in Mazdas around here. I nearly bought a 3 several years ago, but went with a Fit instead. The Protege 5 is the car that I wish was still available new.

Also, Mazda is releasing a new sports car soon, isn't it?

And if they start sticking the diesel in a lot of things, uh #winning.

And personally, the 2 is THE B segment car I'd buy. Its just so right!

T.J. wrote: I've had a GLC, a re-badged B-4000 Ranger pickup, an MX-3, and my MSM, so I guess that puts me in the camp of someone who only dabbles in Mazdas around here. I nearly bought a 3 several years ago, but went with a Fit instead. The Protege 5 is the car that I wish was still available new.

My issue with Mazdas is that i rarely go out looking for them, but i end up with them anyways.

I'm still a Toyota fanboi at heart, but currently i have:

1988 MX6 GT
1990 MX6 GT
1993 Escort GT (Protege in hatch form, filled with Mazda stuffs)
1993 Miata
2004 MSM

Had a 92 MX3 GS last summer. (Crushed.)

And i'm selling my damn Celica.

The worst part about it is that i don't really feel a HUGE connection with any of these cars like i did with my Celica, but for the most part, they're just GOOD CARS.

I went for years with no Mazdas, then BLAMMO. ALL THE MAZDAS.

I have two mazdas currently, and have owned two more. I will own more in the future. The 2014 Mada6 is a NICE car.

I think the ford divorce really put mazda in a lull. I expect they're towards the end of that and are reverting to a 'normal' state where whether they win or lose is actually entirely their own fault.

Personally, i think they screwed up with the mazda 3 and 5 exterior redesigns of several years ago, and this held them back from the growth they could have seen. It seems obvious their new design leanings are vastly improved from that (cx5, new 6) but until their bread and butter (3...) reflect that improvement i think the benefit will be slow in coming.

I really think the cx5 could take off when they put a more enthusiast-enthusing engine in it.

Id really like to see a pickup and a new cx9, but i think reality might put the kibosh on those. I think the next miata is pretty exciting, but the weirdo in me wants to see mazda take 'fun to drive' to places it hasnt or has rarely been, like a modern light-duty pickup or the full size crossover. I really think the old cx9 with ford's ecoboost 3.5 and some suspension work could have been something id have wanted to own (used, of course.. ).

The new C5 is a really nice looking car/SUV. I saw one in person a few days ago parked on the street.

The Mazda 6 current is a bit bland but the new one is a reasonably nice looking car - but no advertising to the general sheeple/populace. Honda Accord and Toyota Camry are the leaders in that market section. Needs lots more advertising delivering an aggressive message (IMO) if you want to compete against those two snoozers.

I think the last few years w/ the design of the 3 and the effects of that questionable smiley face, rather ugly design direction across the brand hasn't helped them. I don't understand why they didn't respond more aggressively to counter that mistake. Hopefully they address that and get some cool looking and fun to drive cars back on the market place.

I don't know why people bash the miller cycle so much. That motor was ahead of its time. The design of the block is more in keeping with a race motor than a street car. Yes it had problems but dare I say were they any worse than the problems that the RX8 had? They were motors that had huge potential. I have always wanted to take one and put a "normal" cam in it and then add either turbo's or a clutched M62. That I think would make for a neat little powerplant.

dean1484 wrote: I don't know why people bash the miller cycle so much. That motor was ahead of its time. The design of the block is more in keeping with a race motor than a street car. Yes it had problems but dare I say were they any worse than the problems that the RX8 had? They were motors that had huge potential. I have always wanted to take one and put a "normal" cam in it and then add either turbo's or a clutched M62. That I think would make for a neat little powerplant.

The thing is that the design of the block and everything that makes it awesome is present in the "normal cycle" 2.5 KL and you don't have to deal with having four completely custom cams made to make it run like a normal motor.

The 2.3 is a major pain in the ass to work on as well. I pull injectors out of those things all the time, and they're a serious clusterberkeley.

It's a cool motor for sure, in theory. But it's also probably the worst choice (hotly contested by Mazdas 2.0 DOHC "FS" motor) to do anything with in terms of a Mazda motor made in the 80s-early 00s.

Unless you like re-inventing the wheel for results that could be more easily had elsewhere in the same family.

it's a complicated piece. it's also every bit as big dimensionally and at least as heavy as a traditional V6. so, OMG IT ONLY HAS 2.3 LITERS OF DISPLACEMENT is slightly less relevant.

and it didn't make more power than a traditional V6.

it was also not more efficient.

All the cool stuff the KJ might have... demonstrated by a KL:

MASSIVE cradle/support plate. This is F1-style E36 M3.

2-piece block, thanks to Porsche's input on the project.

Also: Insane amount of valve area.

Maybe the lull in sales has to do to the challenging design language......i would love a 3 but they had to use an ugly stick to design it.

I've only had one Mazda, but my brother is a salesman for them. Here's what I know:

3 is getting refreshed soon, 6 is getting refreshed soon, Miata is getting refreshed soon. They can't keep CX5's on the lot. The Skyactiv CX5 is about to get more power but the same fuel economy. The 2 might be getting the axe (not a big seller, the 3 gets better fuel economy).

It is worth keeping in mind that the "new" Ford Focus is using the same chassis (C1) the Mazda3 has been using since 2004.

They seriously hurt themselves with their rictus faced 2nd gen Mazda3s, though.