Is Pontiac gone?

neon4891 wrote: IIRC the razor did not include a spare tire, but came with 2 razor scooters for that... situation?

True... but I'm sure that had it actually made it to production, a better alternative would have been in place.

I think that it also had a tool kit that came with it.

P71 wrote: I still think factories should sell cars direct to the public at straight MSRP (or discounted) and bypass crooked dealers altogether.

Unfortunately that's illegal in many states (or at least in Texas; which is the only one I really care about).

Jensenman wrote:

oldopelguy wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Car dealers begging for pitty is funny. Is there a more reviled segment of society?

Real Estate agents. The only other sector of retail America that refuses to acknowledge that the consumer just might be able to do research on their own and might have a clue about the product they are trying to buy.

Don't forget lawyers.

Don't be silly; everybody loves us. :rolleyes:

Xceler8x wrote: Rev, I think you're in the 1% that would buy a car with no radio or A/C. That's a car that really doesn't have much of a market here in the U.S. Most people refer to a car without a radio or A/C as a motorcycle. I had one and used my iPod to replace the radio. There were days where I would've run over my own legs for A/C.

I should rephrase. I should be able to order a car radio delete, and A/C should be an option. I can count the number of times I've used A/C on my fingers, so for me it's nothing but extra weight and parasitic loss.

Also, with as popular as aftermarket stereos are, why would you pay for the factory equipment that you're just gonna throw away anyway? I remember a scion "tuner" tC concept, that came with no radio or speakers, and cheap steel wheels and crap tires. The idea was anything that was gonna get tossed, either not include or put the cheapest thing on that would do the required functionality. I thought that was an AWESOME idea.

billy3esq wrote:

P71 wrote: I still think factories should sell cars direct to the public at straight MSRP (or discounted) and bypass crooked dealers altogether.

Unfortunately that's illegal in many states (or at least in Texas; which is the only one I really care about).

Congress could overrule that via the ISCC though...

We could debate that for a long time, but it would bore everyone to tears. In any case, the commerce clause answer is nowhere near as simple or clear cut as your one sentence would suggest.