Is there a toggle switch that's momentary, but still has two positions?

My E46 hazard lights are on a toggle switch now (racecar!). It needs to be momentary for on, momentary for off. Obviously two flicks of a standard momentary switch gets you on and back off. But, in my very brief usage of the car, I've twice forgotten they were on. It's loud, wheel seems to block my view of the flashers on the dash, etc. I have in my head that if a switch is flipped UP for ON that I'll be more likely remember to flip it back DOWN for OFF, but I don't know that I've ever seen a switch that flips like an ON - OFF, but is momentary at each position. Now that I am typing this out, I also guess it would have to be specific to whether it is normally open or normally closed. 

Asking too much? 

SPDT On-Off-On is probably what you want. Lots of styles.

According to McMaster, this one "Stays Switched (Maintained)/Springs Back (Momentary)" Which is confusing. I am not sure if this is what you are looking for or not.

In reply to theruleslawyer :

I think momentary would be written like this: (On)-Off-(On). Like this one.

But it's the non-latching aspect that's weird. A switch that only sends a momentary signal but stays in position. So I'd find a way to make it more obvious the flashers are on.

In reply to Trent :

I think he needs the opposite. Momentary switching but staying in position. It needs to trigger a momentary every time it changes position if I'm reading this right. So, "stays switched (momentary)"?

Reading the McMaster description, I think that one is both a latching and a momentary switch depending on which way you push it but it's the same circuit either way.

In reply to Spearfishin :

Do you want a switch that works in the same fashion as a power window switch and returns to center when you remove your finger?

I can see wanting latching from a UX perspective. There might be a specialist switch out there, but it would be pretty easy to accomplish with a spdt latching switch and a arduino.

I found this looking for a weird switch though-

"Yup.  Turn a DPDT or SPDT into a SPST momentary latch - use the common lug as one end, and tie the two alternate lugs together and use it as the other end.

Just in case it's not clear, there's a split second between the change from one end to the other - a "moment" if you will - that's what you're doing in this case. "

Makes sense. Take advantage of the movement from position to position to to send the pulse.

One of the pieces of equipment I service (an MBO folder) is wired with a "start" toggle switch that is: OFF (left), Momentary Start (right), is spring loaded to return to center (ON). Pretty much like an key ignition switch.

Maybe a lighted momentary push button with the led wired to illuminate when the hazards are on?

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1439

Or one of the red toggle safety covers? Flip it up to switch on the hazards, leave it flipped up as a reminder you need to hit the switch again?

https://www.amazon.com/Nilight-90014E-Rocker-Toggle-Warranty/dp/B07QKFD7Z7?sr=8-4

You can have a physical switch that is momentary in both up and down directions (if you think about it, this is what the momentary turn signal stalk is).  Electrically it's really more of two momentary switches, though, one for up and one for down.

I think the right way to do this would be a single on/off momentary button with some kind of easy-to-see indication that they are on.  This is effectively what I have for my pit lane speed limiter -- button on the wheel turns it on/off (switches an input on the PDM, which sends a CAN bus message to the ECU to enable/disalbe it), then the ECU sends a CAN bus message to the dash to turn on or off an indicator light.

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Trent :

I think he needs the opposite. Momentary switching but staying in position. It needs to trigger a momentary every time it changes position if I'm reading this right. So, "stays switched (momentary)"?

That's indeed what I'm after. 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to Spearfishin :

Do you want a switch that works in the same fashion as a power window switch and returns to center when you remove your finger?

No. I want the mechanical side your finger flicks to stay up or down, but electrically for it to be a NO momentary, in both directions. 

Like this?

"DC Momentary Reversing Rocker Switch (double pole double throw) with wire pigtails"

Rocks "forwards" to do one function. Stops when you  let go. Rocks "backwards" to do a second function. Stops when you let go.

How hard would it be to bung the OE switch back into service?  It seems like there may be a pre-engineered solution staring us in the face.

Or maybe just a couple additional LEDs wired into the turn signal circuits up where you can see them, so you can easily tell if they are on or not.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

How hard would it be to bung the OE switch back into service?  It seems like there may be a pre-engineered solution staring us in the face.

 

Or maybe just a couple additional LEDs wired into the turn signal circuits up where you can see them, so you can easily tell if they are on or not.

Or just remember that I hit the hazards all of 40 seconds earlier! Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that the world didn't know about a switch that I had never heard of, but sounds like not.

Spearfishin said:

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to Spearfishin :

Do you want a switch that works in the same fashion as a power window switch and returns to center when you remove your finger?

No. I want the mechanical side your finger flicks to stay up or down, but electrically for it to be a NO momentary, in both directions. 

I'm still confused on what you're after. You want three positions; up, center, down. You want the center to be off and both the up and down to singularly pulse a circuit while the toggle stays in that position even though it only does one pulse? Or you want it to pulse the hazards for as long as the switch is in the up or down position?

iansane said:

Spearfishin said:

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to Spearfishin :

Do you want a switch that works in the same fashion as a power window switch and returns to center when you remove your finger?

No. I want the mechanical side your finger flicks to stay up or down, but electrically for it to be a NO momentary, in both directions. 

I'm still confused on what you're after. You want three positions; up, center, down. You want the center to be off and both the up and down to singularly pulse a circuit while the toggle stays in that position even though it only does one pulse? Or you want it to pulse the hazards for as long as the switch is in the up or down position?

2 positions - up or down. When moved from up to down, or down to up, it would momentarily close the same circuit to ground, but then open it back up until the switch position is changed. Each momentary grounding of the switch changes the state of the hazards. So a normal momentary is what's currently in use: down is open, spring loaded switch to up grounds the circuit, cuts the hazards on, and when you let go, it returns to down. Flick it up again, hazards off. 

I'm just making things too complicated...retain current switch, just have to remember to cut the damned things off. If it continues to be an issue, I'll add a more visible flashing light tied in with turn signals. 

I'm sure you probably already know this, but just to be clear how the OEMs do it:  A switch is turned on (not momentary) and it's up to the "Flasher control" to pulse the ground to turn the flashers on and off.  As long as power is being applied to the "flasher control," the lights will flash.    

How are you controlling your flashers?

Out of curiosity, if you want the visual cue of having the switch in an identifiable ON position... why does it need to be momentary?

Spearfishin said:

iansane said:

Spearfishin said:

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to Spearfishin :

Do you want a switch that works in the same fashion as a power window switch and returns to center when you remove your finger?

No. I want the mechanical side your finger flicks to stay up or down, but electrically for it to be a NO momentary, in both directions. 

I'm still confused on what you're after. You want three positions; up, center, down. You want the center to be off and both the up and down to singularly pulse a circuit while the toggle stays in that position even though it only does one pulse? Or you want it to pulse the hazards for as long as the switch is in the up or down position?

2 positions - up or down. When moved from up to down, or down to up, it would momentarily close the same circuit to ground, but then open it back up until the switch position is changed. Each momentary grounding of the switch changes the state of the hazards. So a normal momentary is what's currently in use: down is open, spring loaded switch to up grounds the circuit, cuts the hazards on, and when you let go, it returns to down. Flick it up again, hazards off. 

I'm just making things too complicated...retain current switch, just have to remember to cut the damned things off. If it continues to be an issue, I'll add a more visible flashing light tied in with turn signals. 

I think I was just hung up on the vernacular. I refer to a momentary switch as a switch that you have to manually hold on(or off) to function. As soon as you let go, it goes back to it's previous state.

I think this is a job for a bigger and well placed indicator lamp instead of a switch that might not exist or a complicated logic circuit

WonkoTheSane said:

I'm sure you probably already know this, but just to be clear how the OEMs do it:  A switch is turned on (not momentary) and it's up to the "Flasher control" to pulse the ground to turn the flashers on and off.  As long as power is being applied to the "flasher control," the lights will flash.    

How are you controlling your flashers?

Momentary to ground. One momentary switch. 

iansane said:

Spearfishin said:

iansane said:

Spearfishin said:

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to Spearfishin :

Do you want a switch that works in the same fashion as a power window switch and returns to center when you remove your finger?

No. I want the mechanical side your finger flicks to stay up or down, but electrically for it to be a NO momentary, in both directions. 

I'm still confused on what you're after. You want three positions; up, center, down. You want the center to be off and both the up and down to singularly pulse a circuit while the toggle stays in that position even though it only does one pulse? Or you want it to pulse the hazards for as long as the switch is in the up or down position?

2 positions - up or down. When moved from up to down, or down to up, it would momentarily close the same circuit to ground, but then open it back up until the switch position is changed. Each momentary grounding of the switch changes the state of the hazards. So a normal momentary is what's currently in use: down is open, spring loaded switch to up grounds the circuit, cuts the hazards on, and when you let go, it returns to down. Flick it up again, hazards off. 

I'm just making things too complicated...retain current switch, just have to remember to cut the damned things off. If it continues to be an issue, I'll add a more visible flashing light tied in with turn signals. 

I think I was just hung up on the vernacular. I refer to a momentary switch as a switch that you have to manually hold on(or off) to function. As soon as you let go, it goes back to it's previous state.

And I think you're 100% correct in your usage and I just lack the proper technical vocabulary to describe what I'm after. 

In reply to Spearfishin :

No worries! Sometimes it takes a little talking through what we're after. That's a good thing.

Install a brighter light on the dash that is "in your face bright" and in your field of view. The switch type won't remind you to turn them off. 
 

Or a big piece of tape on the dash with a note on it reminding you to turn them off.