logdog wrote: From what I understand they didnt think too clearly in the 70s
also see: Ralph Nadar
logdog wrote: From what I understand they didnt think too clearly in the 70s
also see: Ralph Nadar
Sky_Render wrote:BoneYard_Racing wrote: Who is to say what is a safety issue?Really? If your car spontaneously tears holes in oil pans, it is unsafe. If you grind the bolts down on your subframe for more clearance, it is unsafe. If your tires are stretched to the point of easily blowing out, it is unsafe. If your control arm geometry is so messed up that going over a bridge joint at highway speeds causes you to lose control, it is unsafe.
Then a whole lot of autocross cars are unsafe. Hell, my STOCK height Fiat 124 got a hole tore in it's oil pan from a raised manhole cover. OTOH, I've daily driven cars with less than an inch of ground clearance that NEVER got holes in their oil pan:
A lot of you guys blathering on about being "unsafe" are really just overreacting (as is typical with the sports car crowd about ANY genre outside sports cars).
Low cars have been part and parcel of the car scene since the end of WWII when the first taildragger customs came on the scene. And unlike modern customs with coilovers or air bags, those older customs were permanently at that height:
Uptight types bitched about them being unsafe back in the day, too. I'm more upset that we are still saddled with the uptight types than with the kids that still want to lower their cars.
Chris_V wrote:Sky_Render wrote:Then a whole lot of autocross cars are unsafe. Hell, my STOCK height Fiat 124 got a hole tore in it's oil pan from a raised manhole cover. OTOH, I've daily driven cars with less than an inch of ground clearance that NEVER got holes in their oil pan:BoneYard_Racing wrote: Who is to say what is a safety issue?Really? If your car spontaneously tears holes in oil pans, it is unsafe. If you grind the bolts down on your subframe for more clearance, it is unsafe. If your tires are stretched to the point of easily blowing out, it is unsafe. If your control arm geometry is so messed up that going over a bridge joint at highway speeds causes you to lose control, it is unsafe.
Here here.
And I so wanted a Cal look Vdeb back in the day
In reply to Adrian_Thompson:
Nice thing about the Bugs (I've owned nearly 30 custom air cooled VWs) is that they really didn't have anything to hit underneath, so you can lower them extensively and only "scrape" the front apron... 
I guess I'm most upset about seeing this sort of reaction against "unsafe" cars on a forum where $500 BABE rally cars are a goal and project cars that are held together with spit and bailing wire are normal. Low cars that occasionally scrape on stuff are no more unsafe than a $500 BABE rally van that barely makes it from NY to Florida, or a cheap-ass autocross car that is been made dynamically unstable (snap oversteer, for example) on order to get around the cones qucker, yet is still driven to and from the track.
Track builds are not the only valid way to enjoy cars. Yes, many of the comments are dumb, but that's true for any youtube comment string. I've gotten that sort of stupid commentary on my custom BMW vids.
Chris_V wrote: I guess I'm most upset about seeing this sort of reaction against "unsafe" cars on a forum where $500 BABE rally cars are a goal and project cars that are held together with spit and bailing wire are normal. Low cars that occasionally scrape on stuff are no more unsafe than a $500 BABE rally van that barely makes it from NY to Florida, or a cheap-ass autocross car that is been made dynamically unstable (snap oversteer, for example) on order to get around the cones qucker, yet is still driven to and from the track. Track builds are not the only valid way to enjoy cars. Yes, many of the comments are dumb, but that's true for any youtube comment string. I've gotten that sort of stupid commentary on my custom BMW vids.
Extremely well said. Thank you.
I can't comment on Babe rally cars or autocross cars that are barely usable on the street.. never done either.
However.. the thing that gets me.. those people make no excuses for those cars. We KNOW the babe car barely runs, barely brakes, and will probably blow up in a spectacular fashion in the worst possible place.. and prepare for it.
The autocross car.. we can assume (I hope) the driver knows what he is doing if he got the car to that point. Usually those kinds of automotive decisions are made after a few seasons of tweaking (again , I hope)
The problem I have with the stance folks.. is the excuses. they KNOW their cars are unusable.. but still insist that they are not, tell us how they will go around "such and such" circuit faster being that low...
If I had a guy with a stanced, poked, and stretched car come clean and say "It's really not usable anymore like this.. but looks great!" or some such.. I would agree with him and think rather highly of the his (or her) candor.
All cars are a compromise.. as long as you respect that and make the best of that compromise.. I won't bitch or complain.
As for the Fiat 124 oil pan.. been there, done that. They sit low in front of the crossmember with NO protection.. add to that the soft nature of the US spec springs and shocks.. and it is a disaster waiting to happen. Anybody who is a Fiat enthusiast knows it.
Chris_V wrote: I guess I'm most upset about seeing this sort of reaction against "unsafe" cars on a forum where $500 BABE rally cars are a goal and project cars that are held together with spit and bailing wire are normal. Low cars that occasionally scrape on stuff are no more unsafe than a $500 BABE rally van that barely makes it from NY to Florida, or a cheap-ass autocross car that is been made dynamically unstable (snap oversteer, for example) on order to get around the cones qucker, yet is still driven to and from the track. Track builds are not the only valid way to enjoy cars. Yes, many of the comments are dumb, but that's true for any youtube comment string. I've gotten that sort of stupid commentary on my custom BMW vids.
I don't think you realize quite how ridiculous some of those "stance" cars are. Take a look at that link I posted, and then tell me that thing is anywhere near as safe as even a BABE rally car or GRM challenge beater.
BTW -
Dude got busted by the po-po...
My Sprite was "stance" low for years. When I restored it I didn't do anything to the 1970s autocross suspension so it had rock-hard recurved rear 1/4 elliptic springs and short million pound front coils and the lever shocks were full of STP.
It was awful. I installed 4-point harnesses just to not be ejected from the car by bumps. I found myself having to negotiate back out of subdivisions and parking lots due to my progress being halted by the smallest of speed bumps.
On restoration #2 I finally addressed this and the car is about 3" higher, and it's still lower than stock.
My sports racer runs a 2-1/4" front ride height and it scrapes in the paddock on any irregularity.
I had a low-ish 02' Si hatchback as recently as 2006, but it was "handling" related....
Thanks a lot...I stared at that fat guy for 20 minutes.
This is how I feel when talking to the youth into cars now:
this video make me puke
That "tuning" and exhaust is something else. Never thought I'd wish for the days of 5" fart cans again.
The_Jed wrote: Thanks a lot...I stared at that fat guy for 20 minutes.
Say whaaaa?
Chris V,
I think you miss my point. It is the CULTURE of the new/current stance-tards I can't stand. Just listen to that idiot in the video talking to the cops and then to his friends.
"Dude, bro, dude, they thought we were hunting alligators, dude, bro."
"They totally slammed my trunk dude."
"Yeah, its a racecar, that's why it's loud."
I am not an anti-lowered-car-if-not-racecar guy. The 66 Ranch Wagon project I have will be lowered a bit soon. Your Falcon looks great. I was an aircooled guy back when I first got into cars and just about everyone at aircooled shows lowered their cars. They look great. But this, poke, stretch, illest, low low, shocker crowd is the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to car enthusiast.
My boss, who is the same age as me, 33, is a stance enthusiast and also a racer. I bust his balls all the time. He knows I am a "hater" and we kinda laugh each other off.
Point being, I don't like the culture, but it's their cars... they can do what ever they want that makes them happy. But there is no reason I cannot point, laugh, and make fun of them all I want. It's something they choose to do, not something they are born with.
As far as the cops messing with him, tough E36 M3. You want your car to stand out, rev the E36 M3 out of it to where people think it's gun shots? Well, there is no reason a cop shouldn't stop you and ask WTF are you doing and let me search your car.... Bro.
You guys are still going on about "kids these days?" Give it a rest. Go complain about something meaningful, like how your neighbor always leaves his trash can by the street a full day after trash day. Or those squirrels. Those god. dammed. squirrels.
Nah, not "get off my lawn" material, more like wrench on cars and be an actual "car guy" no matter what you do to you car. Not pay someone to put a zebra headliner in your car cuz, "Bro, no one else will have one at the car meet, bro."
Don't forget that all important shocker or illest sticker, because you're witty and original. 
Anti-stance wrote:
His torso made me think of this:
In reply to Alan Cesar:
I'll see your stupid and raise you 10. Try and beat this, but make sure you bring a bucket to barf in... I kid you not...
the Good old Boys of NASCAR say they are doing camber wrong when they tip the top of the tire in..
For only turning left... sure.
kb58 wrote: For only turning left... sure.
do them both like that, and your car will be, like, totally ready to go 200mph..
logdog wrote:novaderrik wrote:From what I understand they didnt think too clearly in the 70slogdog wrote: My mom told me that back in the early 70s she had a boyfriend that would stick flat rocks in the rear coil springs of his car to get the raked look that was so popular at the time. Just seemed an appropriate story for these kids today.that's just stupid.. everyone knows that you can just jam a short chunk of 2X4 in there to get a couple of inches of lift..
I still have a '60's style hot rod with the raked rear and spring wedges.
35,000+ views.
This thread has only 125 posts, most of whom are hatrz. Autox snobs! 
I guess he wins!
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