It is illegal to do major repairs on your car in your garage in Sacramento County

No Time said:

The tool aspect could be argued based on where you can purchase the tools.

if you can get them at Home Depot, Sears, Walmart, harbor freight or any of the box stores where your average consumer could purchase them then it’s reasonable to expect to find them in a residence. 

If you have to go to an industrial supplier, or direct to the manufacturer, then it may be a harder argument. You probably won’t find a lift at your local box store.

Of course some items will be in a grey area, like engine hoists and engine stands.

You can get them at parts stores, but swapping engines is probably hard to argue as a minor repair. Even if it is potentially less harmful to the environment than someone using a tired engine that burned oil, or doing a pad swap using chlorinated brake cleaner, or spilling used oil on their driveway.

 

 

Costco sells/sold the Ranger QuickJoke lift and the MaxJax too and there is nothing more suburban and white collar than Costco.  Also they had a bunch of licensed Snap On merch - not real Snap On, but one could make the argument that if I can get a rebranded Chinese pocketknife its not too much of a stretch to my big ol lime green toolbox.  

Javelin said:

In reply to irish44j :

Meh, it pays the bills. And when the BOD has the politicians ears you can't really expect anything to come of uncovering it.

I'd have way, way, way bigger fish to fry with the corruption within the VA and the Federal government as a whole, but I also don't think that would find any traction, either.

I work for the federal government, and it's hard enough to "find traction" to fight it from the inside (and I'm a government worker who earns every penny they pay me, and then some). I did manage to torpedo a proposed $2 million program a few years back, because it was bullE36 M3. So I feel like I've done my part. 

Cooter said:

In reply to irish44j :

It has been all over FB for a few weeks now.

 

right, but FB isn't mass media. And politicians aren't influenced by discussions on niche motorsport FB pages. If it's not getting enough attention to even make it into basic Google searches (which presumably would find local news stories about it), it's not getting enough attention that lawmakers will care. This is the kind of thing that needs some kind of powerful benefactor to get behind, or at very least expose the bullE36 M3 scam it is via local news stories or something. Hell, even write an intelligent editorial for a Sacramento newspaper or something?

nutherjrfan said:

 

I'll agree with Irish for once.  

do we usually disagree about things? lol...

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I agree that more info would be helpful, but it doesn’t sound like the OP lives in a typical suburban housing developement where his garage and driveway is within spitting distance of his neighbor. He said 20 acres. That’s enough for 80+ generous sized residential lots.

The code is overly restrictive by even many HOA standards, let alone an entire largely rural county. 

If the goal is to prevent people from running businesses from their homes or dumping chemicals, write ordinances against those (which likely already exist,) don’t cast a wide, selectively enforced net. 

Prostitution is illegal. But it kinda looks a lot like having sex, so let’s just assume all sex is prostitution. Condoms are tools of prostitution, so people in possession of condoms will be assumed guilty. You have to prove your own innocence, but the cost to fight the charge is 150% the penalty of a guilty plea. No matter how much you are against just about any behavior, the above should never be acceptable. 

Everyone is a Minority. We all like hobbies or activities that are not important to at lease 51% of our fellow citizens. If we keep restricting and banning everything we don’t care about, understand, or even disagree with, nobody will have anything left. That said, us car enthusiasts need to police ourselves. Every one of us that creates an eyesore, nuisance, or hazmat issue to the community hurts the rest of us, because we will end up with more regulations like this. 

I’m pretty sure the OP has not yet said what type of work he was doing to offend his neighbors. 

93gsxturbo said:

No Time said:

The tool aspect could be argued based on where you can purchase the tools.

if you can get them at Home Depot, Sears, Walmart, harbor freight or any of the box stores where your average consumer could purchase them then it’s reasonable to expect to find them in a residence. 

If you have to go to an industrial supplier, or direct to the manufacturer, then it may be a harder argument. You probably won’t find a lift at your local box store.

Of course some items will be in a grey area, like engine hoists and engine stands.

You can get them at parts stores, but swapping engines is probably hard to argue as a minor repair. Even if it is potentially less harmful to the environment than someone using a tired engine that burned oil, or doing a pad swap using chlorinated brake cleaner, or spilling used oil on their driveway.

 

 

Costco sells/sold the Ranger QuickJack lift and the MaxJax too and there is nothing more suburban and white collar than Costco.  Also they had a bunch of licensed Snap On merch - not real Snap On, but one could make the argument that if I can get a rebranded Chinese pocketknife its not too much of a stretch to my big ol lime green toolbox.  

Home Depot sells lifts, too. Full on lifts, not just the QuickJack.

https://www.homedepot.com/s/car%20lift

I suspect that "normal household tools" is limited to anything that comes in a big blow-molded plastic case, and the bits for the screwdrivers need to be interchangeable. In which case I'm pretty much screwed 

Something’s not adding up here. 

I may not do too many car repairs at home.. and the ones I do rarely tie up the vehicles for more than a day. I am sure your county would love my collection of Japanese handsaws, planes, and other devices of wood torture that I use for working on my boats though.

Keith Tanner said:

93gsxturbo said:

No Time said:

The tool aspect could be argued based on where you can purchase the tools.

if you can get them at Home Depot, Sears, Walmart, harbor freight or any of the box stores where your average consumer could purchase them then it’s reasonable to expect to find them in a residence. 

If you have to go to an industrial supplier, or direct to the manufacturer, then it may be a harder argument. You probably won’t find a lift at your local box store.

Of course some items will be in a grey area, like engine hoists and engine stands.

You can get them at parts stores, but swapping engines is probably hard to argue as a minor repair. Even if it is potentially less harmful to the environment than someone using a tired engine that burned oil, or doing a pad swap using chlorinated brake cleaner, or spilling used oil on their driveway.

 

 

Costco sells/sold the Ranger QuickJack lift and the MaxJax too and there is nothing more suburban and white collar than Costco.  Also they had a bunch of licensed Snap On merch - not real Snap On, but one could make the argument that if I can get a rebranded Chinese pocketknife its not too much of a stretch to my big ol lime green toolbox.  

Home Depot sells lifts, too. Full on lifts, not just the QuickJack.

https://www.homedepot.com/s/car%20lift

I suspect that "normal household tools" is limited to anything that comes in a big blow-molded plastic case, and the bits for the screwdrivers need to be interchangeable. In which case I'm pretty much screwed 

I sense a market for blowmold cased 4 post lifts in California. 

NOT A TA said:

Mndsm said:

wae said:

nimblemotorsports said:

NorseDave said:

Mndsm said:

In reply to Shadeux :

You might be on to something with that. Assuming it is actually illegal to work on a car in Sacramento county as your own mechanic- I would think that there would have to be some sort of disclaimer when selling things that are obviously used for such endeavours- Floor jacks and air compressors and you know- tools not found in the typical home garage. Couple that with the fact that auto parts stores generally sell you know- auto parts.... If they're not checking for proper licensure to operate a torque wrench, it could be a bad time. 

I'd think Harbor Freight would have something to say about this too, and their HQ is in CA. 

I did contact SEMA about this, an individual business isn't going to do anything, it needs to be a business association, is there one for auto tools in general?

It is illegal to own automotive tools because that how the law is written.

It looks like you can own them.  You just can't use them.

I can own a bong, I just can't smoke weed out of it- at least in florida. And I can't call it a bong. I know the game well. Sort of like "offroad purposes only" and "display only" . 

You also can't set off most of the fireworks in your backyard that are sold here in FL except sparklers, fountains, snakes, and glow worms. All the roman candles, rockets, explosives, and aerial displays require permits to shoot off unless you're on a farm, fish hatchery etc. and use them to scare off animals. It's in the waiver you sign when buying the fireworks.

weird. I've actually not bought fireworks since I moved here, so this is interesting to me. 

Mndsm said:

I sense a market for blowmold cased 4 post lifts in California. 

4-post lifts are more common in some parts of CA than you'd think.  Lots of people with expensive sports cars, and a 4-post lift is a lot less expensive than a 3 car garage.

SVreX said:

I’m pretty sure the OP has not yet said what type of work he was doing to offend his neighbors. 

I believe he said he was not doing anything (that the neighbor could see or hear at least).  He is suspicious of one generally angry neighbor, but cannot be sure. The whole point of course is that it almost does not matter since the net is so wide on this law you could nail almost anyone with it.

I guess the question I would have would be why exactly did the code enforcement guy write him up?  Did HE see something or was he just going on a complaint? Perhaps there is a bit of malicious prosecution going on here (does he in anyway have a connection to the code guy or someone who knows him).

Could just be a really bored neighbor fishing to nail people on things (if you look hard enough at almost anyone, you will eventually find SOMETHING). Kind of like those guys in jail that are constantly filing lawsuits.

aircooled said:

SVreX said:

I’m pretty sure the OP has not yet said what type of work he was doing to offend his neighbors. 

I believe he said he was not doing anything (that the neighbor could see or hear at least).  He is suspicious of one generally angry neighbor, but cannot be sure. The whole point of course is that it almost does not matter since the net is so wide on this law you could nail almost anyone with it.

I guess the question I would have would be why exactly did the code enforcement guy write him up?  Did HE see something or was he just going on a complaint? Perhaps there is a bit of malicious prosecution going on here (does he in anyway have a connection to the code guy or someone who knows him).

Could just be a really bored neighbor fishing to nail people on things (if you look hard enough at almost anyone, you will eventually find SOMETHING). Kind of like those guys in jail that are constantly filing lawsuits.

 

It really isn't relevant, my point is about the LAW, not my specific situation.   I have not done any "Major Repairs" before the complaint was made.

The way code enforcement works (in Sac County) is someone complains, they send you a notice, you have 15 days to correct it, after that they ask the complainer if it was corrected,

if they say no, the enforcement officer comes out and inspects, if they see a violation, the issue a violation notice and fine you.

I have been working on the barn area for many months, cleaning it up, pouring concrete, building sheds, etc, and had a bunch of cars out in the fields and some of them 'wrecks'.   I have also built a trailer for the jetski, which involves a lot of grinding and welding.

The original complaint was about unregistered cars, major repairs, and junk.  Frankly, there was justification for all my junky cars in plain view, there were out there because I was building fences and removing a tree behind the barn.  You are welcome to view my youtube channel Murray Madness. 

I moved all the cars behind the barn and built two fences, so they are no longer visible (except one) from the street.

There was nothing after the deadline to correct, a few weeks later the code enforcement officer left a business card at the house. Now a month later, they showed up and inspected and issued a violation, for junk, major repairs, and commercial vehicle on a residence (which is illegal in the county).  I have no commercial vehicles.  They provided pictures of my one car, my sons car who was there helping me that day, and picture of a swap cooler left by the 40ft container, and one the side of the barn, which does have a pile of 'stuff', building material and car parts, my car lift sitting on the ground, a boat (well three of them) and some cars.

Previously before all this, Mr. Grumpy came up to the fence and told me my carport was on his property, so was my shed and the 40ft container, that his fence was not the property line.  Just was letting me know.

Someone complained a month or two later to the building department about unpermitted work.  They came out and had me convert the carport into three sheds to comply, even though my research showed an AG20 property can have a 2500sf building without a permit, but I did not argue, just wasted my time and more lumber to make one carport into three sheds.  The building department is separate from code enforcement, they did not care about anything else, in fact, the 40ft container is not legal either, or the barn built in 1950 without a permit.  

One time when building a shed roof and hammering in the nails, Mrs. Grumpy came out pissed off and yelled at me, but I could not understand a word of it. 

I could see her because I was up on the roof.   

This isn't relevant to the law.   I WILL be doing major repairs now.  I am swamping a motor in the racecar tomorrow for the lemons race on July 26 in Washington.  Now I could tow it to my shop to do that work, but I aint.

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

So, in reality, you are not in compliance of the law, no matter how incredibly stupid it is? The code violation you received was therefore valid? 

It sounds like yes, he is in violation  (and would have been good to disclose it at the beginning) but the issue isn’t his guilt or innocence- the issue is a dangerously overreaching law. 

It may be well-intentioned but poorly worded

Sounds like with all of the cars, boats and assorted junk on your property you will have a hard time defending against claims made by your neighbors of 'Major Repairs'

It just occurred to me this morning that the way to fight this law isn't to report everyone in the county. He needs to mail a dent puller and a bucket of Bondo to all the county commissioners, then report all of them for doing bodywork at home.

nimblemotorsports said:

I have been working on the barn area for many months, cleaning it up, pouring concrete, building sheds, etc, and had a bunch of cars out in the fields and some of them 'wrecks'.   I have also built a trailer for the jetski, which involves a lot of grinding and welding.

The original complaint was about unregistered cars, major repairs, and junk.  Frankly, there was justification for all my junky cars in plain view, there were out there because I was building fences and removing a tree behind the barn.  You are welcome to view my youtube channel Murray Madness. 

I moved all the cars behind the barn and built two fences, so they are no longer visible (except one) from the street.

Now a month later, they showed up and inspected and issued a violation, for junk, major repairs, and commercial vehicle on a residence (which is illegal in the county).  I have no commercial vehicles.  They provided pictures of my one car, my sons car who was there helping me that day, and picture of a swap cooler left by the 40ft container, and one the side of the barn, which does have a pile of 'stuff', building material and car parts, my car lift sitting on the ground, a boat (well three of them) and some cars.

Frankly, the law is probably over reach, but I don't think you're being unjustly targeted here. It sounds like you've got a bunch of junk in your yard including wrecked, inoperable, cut up vehicles. And by your own admission it's been that way for "many months". You were cited ("frankly there was justification" per your post) and tried to move or obscure the junk so that most of it wasn't visible from the street, but you still have piles of building materials, car parts, etc outside and you continued to do loud work outside like grinding/cutting/welding, so you were cited again.

It may be a different situation now, but here's your video from Feb 2019 of the barn area to give people an idea:

Whose house is just over the fence at the 4:07 mark in the vid? Is that the neighbor that's a grouch?

I have to agree, this thread wouldn't have gone on for 5 pages had you presented that information up front. 

Your self-admitted information and video of your barn is plenty incriminating. 

Holy E36 M3, I had not seen the video.  If I lived next to that I'd be a grumpy neighbor too.  I currently live outside city limits and wish our county had such laws (although with better wording).

Now maybe you are cleaning it all up, which is nice, but its not apparent from the video or your posts.  If so, are your neighbors aware of this?

Also, given your relationship with your neighbors and code enforcement, maybe don't post videos of it online.

nimble may be deserving of the citation in this case... doesn't change the issues surrounding city/county ordinances that essentially criminalize working on your cars.  Which is still a topic worthy of discussion.

The way the law was applied in this situation was very fair. They gave you time to correct and a time and notice for a visit. Definitely an error was citing a visitor's vehicle as being yours. 

The law is not a good one for sure it allows for cheaper and lazier government. Going after someone doing actual business in the backyard requires a lot of investigation costs and court costs. And the local government should do just that. This citation method is just a lazy way of government trying to add some mechanism to be a nuisance to those running illegally located business. 

You fight city hall many ways. It reads like you want to fight through aggressive non-compliance.

I would fall back on your barn building permit, thus documenting why you had a messy yard, add the fact that they cited a visitor's vehicle, and take photos of your work to hide the "junk" after your initial notice. You seem to have tried to comply and that goes a long way.

Then for long term happiness go back to your realtor/builder who sold you the property to provide their documents regarding property lines. Their job is to get that mostly right. Then if still too vague ask your neighbors if they can allow a surveyor to mark your property lines. Pull their property information along with yours from the assessor's office and gift them to your neighbors. Explain that you don't intend to build a mega fence or anything but just want to update your records to keep from stepping on toes. 

In reply to Rodan :

The motivation for municipalities seems to be 3 fold:

1: Eliminate unlicensed or unzoned businesses

2: Protect property values

3: Avoid environmental impacts associated with automotive fluids, chemicals, and old car parts laying around

None of those sound bad to me, but I'm sure the application of those policies could be seen as "reasonable" to some and "extreme and punitive" by others depending on the area and the individuals affected. The code enforcement people say "you can't have a paint booth on your property", and the car guy says "they're telling me it's illegal to work on my car". You have to draw the line somewhere, and it's going to be different for different people and different locations as it should be. You'll never make everybody happy, so all you can do is try to chose the path that is considered acceptable by the largest number of people in the local area.

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

Everyone in this thread agrees. The law is poorly written. 

However, the condition of your property is absolutely relevant. ALL property maintenance codes are complaint driven. You have given your neighbor plenty to complain about, and code enforcement was frankly kind to you. 

You are also confusing the LAW with the ENFORCEMENT of the law. Your issues have MUCH more to do with enforcement. 

The law is so poorly written that it is almost irrelevant. Any law intern could drive a truck through the loopholes. 

“Tools not normally found in a residence”. You mean like a weaving loom, a potter’s wheel, a high-end gaming computer, or specialty baking utensils?

”Conducted on vehicles registered to persons not residing on the parcel”. So, working on unregistered vehicles would be acceptable?

”Conducted outside garage...”. Obviously intended to allow work INSIDE a garage. 

You are mixing what enforcement beurocrats have TOLD you about how the process works with what the law actually SAYS. 

No question they are out of line. This is really common among enforcement folks. But there is also no question you would lose if you took it to court, because you are pretty far outside both the wording of the law AND the intent. 

Your assertions about the laws are sensationalistic. They’d be easy to fight. But you would be a lousy test case.