Italian vs British vs German bikes...

I am in the market for a used motorcycle. It will be the first big bike I've owned and it will be my commuter here in San Francisco as I no longer have a car. It needs to be fun, reliable, good looking, reasonably comfortable, in the 4k-7k range and capable of getting out to the canyons on weekends. I'm somewhat limited on where I can shop, without a car it's difficult to get places outside of the Bay to look at bikes, and would be very difficult to bring them back if I went in a rented car etc. therefore I am limited to our local Craigslist.

The current options I've been looking at are as follows: Triumph Street Triple/R, 2012 Ducati Monster 696, BMW F800R, Triumph Scrambler/Bonneville (maybe).

I would rather stick to a Euro bike but could be persuaded to get something Japanese if the price were right, I like the look of naked bikes and the classic scrambler/cafe style bikes as well. I would like the keep the bike under 6k but for the right option I would pay a bit more.

I am afraid of the Ducati as I hear tons of stories about how it will be expensive to own and that the 696 gets really hot in traffic without a radiator.

The Street Triple is my favorite but is difficult to find out here cause the demand is so high.

The F800R would be amazing but they're nearly impossible to find, a local dealer has been sitting on one for a while priced at 8 grand and doesn't seem to be willing to budge.

The Scrambler would be cool and incredibly sexy, however I think I would want something sportier once I owned one...

Any other bikes I should consider? The Japanese alternatives I see on Craigs don't seem to be much cheaper than what I'm looking for.

Cheers,
Joshua

I've had Japanese, Italian and German, have two Germans in the hangar now.

I always liked the BMW K-75s, light, heavy enough to not get beat up on long distances and has luggage, but can do the twisties.

I commute on a 2003 Ducati Monster 620. Only mods I made were to raise the bars an inch or so, and add a tail bag. What's that thing about "smiles per mile"? Cause I has that daily.

If you aren't doing massive miles at highway speeds you will find the naked bikes fantastic.

Obviously I like the Duc, but I like the Bonnie too. Those things are sweet. I've never ridden one though, so my opionin is based solely on curb appeal.

"What the British and Italians call 'character', the Japanese engineer out, and the Germans deny implicitly."

Been riding for 30+ years, and I've owned all of the big four from Japan, BMW and Ducati. That quote pretty much sums up my experiences...

You said it's your first 'big' bike, but that doesn't tell a lot about your experience and goals. The first bike that came to mind is a Triumph Thruxton, but if you want a serious corner scratcher that's not going to cut it, and depending on the length of your commute, the riding position may not be relaxed enough.

Honestly, something like a Versys 650 would be perfect. Maybe a used FZ-09? Prices should be getting into your range on used ones. That triple motor is a peach!

Tell us more about your experience, and specifically what you want from the bike in terms of handling and comfort. Are you going to have a passenger? How long is your commute?

Personally, for a commuter, the first thing I would look for would be the frequency and ease of maintenance. For that reason the Ducs scare me a little. I'm a little spoiled by the Sporty, basically it's just gas, oil, tires and a battery every couple years.

I love Bonnies, and that aforementioned BMW's so those would be high on my list but I believe the to be more maintenance intensive than a Japanese bike.

I vote FZ-09.

My commute isn't too long, it's basically just city riding, however that could change if I switch jobs. Right now it would be about 20-25 minutes of SF traffic with lots of hills.

I have experience riding big bikes over in Thailand (Ducati Scrambler, Street Triple R, F800R and others) I also owned a little old Honda over there for a while. So I'm not the most experienced rider, any of these bikes will be overkill for a first bike. I want to develop skill and do track days/club racing in the future (a few years away at least). I am a hair over 6 ft so some bikes feel small, I had wanted a K75 for a long time but heard they're super heavy and not super engaging. I sat on a ER-6N which felt a bit small, another Japanese bike that caught my eye is the FZ8 which are pretty cheap here (even from dealers).

I want to keep the price in the range of 4-6k.

Ducati 696:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/5458238122.html

STR: (don't like the color and things with stickers make me nervous about previous owners)

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/mcy/5463326496.html

Street Triple: (cons- non R model, it's not gloss white)

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/5461956092.html

FZ8: (the oddball)

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/mcd/5460942781.html

As I was typing my buddy sent me this:

"BMW bikes are ridden by people who wear those yellow outfits and talk to each other through helmet mics"

BMW riders also seems to actually put serious miles on their bikes, in all kinds of weather conditions. I'm always amazed at how many kms (100k+) are on so many of the used ones for sale.

In your position, I'd strongly consider a VFR800....

As a perpetual bike shopper myself I would suggest your list is meaningless until you actually plant your posterior on the seat. Bike ergonomics vary so widely that you really can't tell what you will like from pictures or a spec sheet. My once absurd level of desire for a Triumph Tiger 955i was shattered the first time I rode one. Did. Not. Like.

No experience with the Italian bikes. My brother-in-law has a BMW R1100R that has been pretty dead-nuts reliable for the many years he has owned it. Personally I don't much care for how it rides. The rear shaft drive/diff can be a problem (maintenance and failure on higher mileage bikes) and anything you can't do yourself will cost a fortune at the dealer.

I have a Bonneville now which I love. It just goes; no fuss even being the last of the carb models. Ergos are 'classic' which don't work for a lot of people but it fits me well. As much as I wanted to like the Scrambler the high pipes always felt like they were pushing my right leg out and I never could get comfortable on it. Any of the Triumphs seem to be well built and reliable and the twin on mine looks to be super-simple to work on if I'd ever have to. The Triple is shared with the Tiger and is known as being pretty bulletproof also.

Nothing wrong with Asian bikes but very few seem to have much in the way of character. I didn't bond with my Suzuki WeeStrom in spite of it being a very capable bike. Getting a proper fit and a feeling of lightness are my priorities when choosing one for general use and not just 'for pretty' like my Bonnie. High on my list at the moment is the Honda CB500X. Inexpensive, powerful enough, tossable and fits me near perfectly. Still have to ride one though. You really can't try enough bikes on for 'fit'. It may surprise you what you find that you like if you don't focus on brand and appearance.

If you are in SF, go see these guys. They have a great selection. Rent for a day and see what you like.

http://www.dubbelju.com/Bikes-for-Rent.htm

My vote is for street triple r. I've ridden a speed triple r a bunch of times and currently own a tiger 1050. The speed triple is comfortable for a sport standard it's more engaging. The tiger is more comfortable than the speed triple and still handles really well. Tiger would be better suited to commuting IMO due to factory hard luggage. Cycle world has named the 1050 tiger as the best street bike. I'm inclined to agree. It looks like an ADV bike, but is really setup for pavement.

The only thing I don't like on the Street Triple is the headlights. They've always looked cross eyed to me. But the exhaust (and maybe it's just the angle) in that pic of the black one look HUGE. They are one mean machine though.

Whoever suggested the VFR800 might be right. Those have a great look, aren't too big, have gobs of power, and sound like an F1 car. But I might be biased since I really really like those.

If it helps I'm 5'10-11" and my Monster with the lowered bars felt kinda cramped. I got the bar risers and it feels much better, and I am looking up and not down at traffic.

I think that 2012 Monster is one of the years where the tank actually has plastic covers all around, and the metal tank is underneath those. So you might want to check that if it matters.

I like the F800 and threw my leg over one in the showroom, it felt smaller and more cramped than the VFR800 to me.

The headlights are goofy on the street and speed triple, but I found myself not caring about that whatsoever with the huge grin on my face while riding the triple.

I've always liked the STR look, it was the first bike I really fell in love with. I am leaning towards the Street Triple at this point as it seems like the best value with good reliability. The Duc would be fun but probably too expensive, I'll shoot him a lowball offer and see if he'll haggle.

Do you guys have recommendations on reasonably priced gear? At this point I have a helmet and that's about it. I like the classic leather look without all the armor etc. I was thinking of grabbing a pair of Outdoor Research tactical gloves as they fit WAY better than any riding glove I've worn.

If your commuting on it you should consider the Ducati ST4, Best description is a monster with bags.

Joshua wrote: I've always liked the STR look, it was the first bike I really fell in love with. I am leaning towards the Street Triple at this point as it seems like the best value with good reliability. The Duc would be fun but probably too expensive, I'll shoot him a lowball offer and see if he'll haggle. Do you guys have recommendations on reasonably priced gear? At this point I have a helmet and that's about it. I like the classic leather look without all the armor etc. I was thinking of grabbing a pair of Outdoor Research tactical gloves as they fit WAY better than any riding glove I've worn.

Shop. Shop around for gear that you like and will wear. I find that the more expensive stuff is more comfortable unfortunately. For gloves I really like having the finger seams on the outside. I want knuckle protection and hopefully palm sliders. Made in tough leather. I'll have sweaty palms over road rash hands.

Webbikeworld.com is a great place for honest reviews.

44Dwarf wrote: If your commuting on it you should consider the Ducati ST4, Best description is a monster with bags.

I had one of those for a few years (2004 ST4S)... very disappointing ownership experience. Expensive to maintain, chronic front brake issues, first bike to leave me stranded in 20 years. Definitely wouldn't recommend one for a commuter.

Joshua wrote: Do you guys have recommendations on reasonably priced gear? At this point I have a helmet and that's about it. I like the classic leather look without all the armor etc. I was thinking of grabbing a pair of Outdoor Research tactical gloves as they fit WAY better than any riding glove I've worn.

Check out Motorcyclegear.com

Great reviews with good pics of a variety of gear.

Revzilla also has pretty good video reviews.

For everyday riding, I'm a fan of Joe Rocket's Alter Ego jacket. It's a true 3 season jacket, 4 with an electric vest, especially in CA. I have everything from JR synth gear to Spidi full race leathers to Vanson street leathers to Aerostich, and the JR is what I wear most.

Many say textile gear is a one-crash deal, which is fine... it's cheap enough that you've got your money out of it. Textiles do well in street speed crashes. I wouldn't wear them on the racetrack, but I've got leathers for that.

With respect to gloves, I'd stick with a moto-glove. They are designed with crashing in mind... i.e. reinforcement and extra layers in all the right places. Most tactical gloves are made thin to improve feel... doesn't work well in a crash.

Anyone on a 4-digit budget has no business looking at Italian bikes, or ruling out Japanese bikes from consideration. That's all I have to add

The Triumph Triples scare me. Never seen one with high miles. (i.e. most with new motors or blown motors in the 30k~40k range) The twins I have seen plenty. Never owned either so I can't explain why.

The F800 is largly panned for it's handling. It is a BMW bike so it goes for a while just make sure you like the way it rides.

The Monster 696 is a good bike. Don't be afraid of the Desmo. There are hundreds of how to's on keeping the valves set and how to get get the most out of it. The one detractor of Ducs, and I had a Duc, is the dry clutch. The 696 has a wet clutch so it is all good. But the chattering, wearing out of the basket of the old dry clutches, is a little ridiculous, and the clutches aren't bad but the basket isn't cheap.

Of your list, based on my riding, in order, Duc, Scrambler, then F800 and would skip the triples all together.

In reply to 914Driver:

K100RS has always been a fave.

I'd vote Street triple as well, the motor is great and so is build quality. The earlier Street triples had the round headlights which look better IMO I think 2007-2011 I believe. I wouldn't worry about the motor with high miles, my friend has a daytona 675 basically same motor and he has 30k on it with no hiccups. I have the 1050 triple in my Speed Triple with 23k and it hasn't given me any problems what so ever.

But to go with what others have said get on and ride as many as you can.

I'll throw in a MV Agusta Brutale 675 because I lust over all Brutale's, they just look the business. Even though they get knocked for bad fueling, any MV dealer can tune the stock ecu to smooth it out.

I bought a 2014 Versys 650 and I've been very happy so far. It's light enough to be nimble in the twisties, but it's also completely comfortable for all-day rides. The saddle-bags are incredibly useful, and with the windshield it offers good weather protection.

I still think it looks a little weird-- like it was styled on Mars, and it could sound better (it does't sound bad--- but it's no Ducati) but overall, I've been extremely pleased.

Check your Craigslist for gear. You can get some deals. I would never buy a used helmet though. Possibility of unseen abuse and some other dude's funk? Nope.

Nick (LUCAS) Comstock wrote: I vote FZ-09.

This. LOVE mine. Great riding postion, fantastic power, great handling and brakes. I bought my '15 last summer for $6k with 1090 miles on it.

In your price range: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/mcy/5463687579.html

I have a Monster (much older than the one you were looking at) and I wouldn't really buy one for a commuter. It's not that the Duc is maintenance-intensive so much as there are Japanese alternatives that are, by comparison, virtually maintenance free.

For instance, instead of a Monster, consider a used SV650 which is half the price or less and will run basically forever. F4i's, ZZR600's, and YZF600's are good too, although they are I4's versus the V twin in the SV.