And, believe me, I'm a huuuuuuge fan of the BRZ.
And, believe me, I'm a huuuuuuge fan of the BRZ.
secretariata said:I was beginning to consider selling my FR-S, but this may convince me to keep it for a while longer.
Don't hold your breath. S2000s have been stagnant in that realm for a while unless they are super super clean, low miles, and one owner.
DirtyBird222 said:secretariata said:I was beginning to consider selling my FR-S, but this may convince me to keep it for a while longer.
Don't hold your breath. S2000s have been stagnant in that realm for a while unless they are super super clean, low miles, and one owner.
I would think depreciation is going to decrease on the the twins when they stop production. Using the S2000 as an example, they are holding steady around or above $10-20k while similar vintage Miatas are half the price. This because you can still get a new Miata.
Prediction is it will become one of those, "Damn, I should have bought one," cars. Good thing I did.
DirtyBird222 said:secretariata said:I was beginning to consider selling my FR-S, but this may convince me to keep it for a while longer.
Don't hold your breath. S2000s have been stagnant in that realm for a while unless they are super super clean, low miles, and one owner.
But if the depreciation curve is about to slow dramatically, I'll lose less driving it than a replacement.
Nate90LX said:DirtyBird222 said:secretariata said:I was beginning to consider selling my FR-S, but this may convince me to keep it for a while longer.
Don't hold your breath. S2000s have been stagnant in that realm for a while unless they are super super clean, low miles, and one owner.
I would think depreciation is going to decrease on the the twins when they stop production. Using the S2000 as an example, they are holding steady around or above $10-20k while similar vintage Miatas are half the price. This because you can still get a new Miata.
Funny story. I'm currently out of town for work and brought my S2000 with me. I was bored two weekends ago on this trip and the local Honda dealer had a Type R. They were selling it at MSRP (which is unheard of where I live) so I was generally interested. I asked them to give me an out the door price with and without trading in the S2000. They offered me a very LAUGHABLE $4000.
They had an FR-S in Costco when they first came out. It was enough for me to say "too small" and never look into it again.
secretariata said:DirtyBird222 said:secretariata said:I was beginning to consider selling my FR-S, but this may convince me to keep it for a while longer.
Don't hold your breath. S2000s have been stagnant in that realm for a while unless they are super super clean, low miles, and one owner.
But if the depreciation curve is about to slow dramatically, I'll lose less driving it than a replacement.
That won't happen until well after the last one rolls of the dealership lot... Until then, depreciation will actually accelerate, as dealerships fire sale the last year of them for less than what lightly used ones should go for.
Nate90LX said:DirtyBird222 said:secretariata said:I was beginning to consider selling my FR-S, but this may convince me to keep it for a while longer.
Don't hold your breath. S2000s have been stagnant in that realm for a while unless they are super super clean, low miles, and one owner.
I would think depreciation is going to decrease on the the twins when they stop production. Using the S2000 as an example, they are holding steady around or above $10-20k while similar vintage Miatas are half the price. This because you can still get a new Miata.
I thought it was because the S2000 had a much higher percentage of people who wanted them in general, versus people who were willing and able to buy new ones.
See also: practically every Euro station wagon ever
(As a factor of depreciation, aren't S2000s and Miatas about even? The S2000 was NOT an inexpensive car!)
Antihero said:Thats sad, i was considering a BRZ.
In the end i didnt because i realized that perfomance wise its about the same as my zx2. Obviously newer and with better tech though
About the only way a BRZ and a ZX2 are similar is that they have a Z in the name, and technically an R, and they had 2-liter engines. I wouldn't put the performance even in the same county, let alone ballpark...
alfadriver said:Toyota has more than enough money to keep the BRZ going, but sometimes it's hard to see the point. Especially for Toyota as they are not using that engine anywhere else- it's more of a gift to Subaru. The Miata has suck around for so long largely because it uses one of their mass produced engines in it. Honda didn't and the S2000 didn't last long. GM does with the Vette, and it's going on +60 years, Ford does with the Mustang, and it's going on 55 years. Heck, the Viper lasted a LONG time using a truck V10.The engine is the single most expensive part, so sharing it goes a long, long way.
You propose an interesting point, but I do hasten to point out that the Corvette engines are only peripherally related to the everything-else engines, and the Viper's V10 shared absolutely nothing with the truck V10s in anything but displacement. The Viper V10s were based on the old shaft-rocker LA engines, the truck engines were based on the Ford Cleveland-rocker Magnum engines. Blocks different, heads massively different, so on and such as. Ironically, the truck engine was the more modern one. It'd be as if Ford were making Mod motors for the trucks, and then they made a special engine for the Mustang based off of the flathead.
Knurled. said:Antihero said:Thats sad, i was considering a BRZ.
In the end i didnt because i realized that perfomance wise its about the same as my zx2. Obviously newer and with better tech though
About the only way a BRZ and a ZX2 are similar is that they have a Z in the name, and technically an R, and they had 2-liter engines. I wouldn't put the performance even in the same county, let alone ballpark...
Not in a drag race but seat of the pants driving around town they are similiar, BRZ is a second faster 0-60 but the zx2 is deceptively fast and fun IMO
You can also get them for under a grand which is a huge plus but the idea is similiar, light, not a huge amount of power and but not FWD
*edit for what i actually meant*
In reply to Antihero :
I agree that the ZX2 is a deceptively quick car, but are you aware that the BRZ is not front wheel drive?
it was supposed to be the third coming of the AE86 Corolla (Altezza was the Second).
86 239 = 86 ni zan kyu = "thank you, 86"
Knurled. said:In reply to Antihero :
I agree that the ZX2 is a deceptively quick car, but are you aware that the BRZ is not front wheel drive?
it was supposed to be the third coming of the AE86 Corolla (Altezza was the Second).
86 239 = 86 ni zan kyu = "thank you, 86"
Lol, yes i am i meant "but not FWD" ill edit it
Most of them I see now are driving down the road on the inner sidewalls with the rim lips banging the fenders, I imagine a nice one will be valuable within a few years. I used to like Subarus, but I can't get excited about the new ones. The impreza and crosstrek are dangerously slow, and the CVTs have too may problems and would cost as much as the car is worth to replace once the warranty expires.
Knurled. said:alfadriver said:Toyota has more than enough money to keep the BRZ going, but sometimes it's hard to see the point. Especially for Toyota as they are not using that engine anywhere else- it's more of a gift to Subaru. The Miata has suck around for so long largely because it uses one of their mass produced engines in it. Honda didn't and the S2000 didn't last long. GM does with the Vette, and it's going on +60 years, Ford does with the Mustang, and it's going on 55 years. Heck, the Viper lasted a LONG time using a truck V10.The engine is the single most expensive part, so sharing it goes a long, long way.
You propose an interesting point, but I do hasten to point out that the Corvette engines are only peripherally related to the everything-else engines, and the Viper's V10 shared absolutely nothing with the truck V10s in anything but displacement. The Viper V10s were based on the old shaft-rocker LA engines, the truck engines were based on the Ford Cleveland-rocker Magnum engines. Blocks different, heads massively different, so on and such as. Ironically, the truck engine was the more modern one. It'd be as if Ford were making Mod motors for the trucks, and then they made a special engine for the Mustang based off of the flathead.
The most important thing is that it's not fully a unique engine. The Mustang engine isn't the truck engine, other than being a DOHC V8- but if not for the truck motor, the Mustang V8 would not be around. They can be made in the same plant on the same line without dedicated tooling to make it. Same goes for the Corvette and the Viper and the Miata. Even with different heads, they are cast in the same place with mostly the same tooling. So all of the really expensive things for an engine are spread out among hundreds of thousands of examples.
Toyota isn't doing that with the flat 4- not even sure how many subaru's really have that engine. And Honda didn't do that with the S2000 at all.
Subaru was dead to me when they got rid of the STi hatchback and ignored the powertrain in it. They're still using the same motor from when it was release 15 years ago! WTF!
In reply to alfadriver :
The Subaru engine is not particularly unique.
As far as the Honda goes, technically it is allegedly based on an older engine, but it's indeed unique.
Toyota, bring back the Tacoma X-Runner and I won't care about this loss.
docwyte said:Subaru was dead to me when they got rid of the STi hatchback and ignored the powertrain in it. They're still using the same motor from when it was release 15 years ago! WTF!
I mean the Honda K series has been around forever in different variants (Essentially the S2000 F20C up to the CTR K20C) and GMs LS engines were around from 97 to like 2015ish. But yea I get you the EJ257 hasn't changed much since 2004 with some really bad iterations in 2008-2009 timeframe.
In reply to alfadriver :
Pretty sure like all of the current Subaru lineup offers some variant of the motor. So yes, it is unique within the Toyota lineup, but then again it really isn't a Toyota.
EJ in the STi, is OLD. And still has the same problems. FA20 in the BRZ and FA25 are completely new engines........that share the same configuration.
I have to think a hot rodded FA25 that could still rev and have some more torque would be awesome in the BRZ.
I actually kind of miss mine now. The ergonomics fit me very well.
Knurled. said:In reply to alfadriver :
The Subaru engine is not particularly unique.
As far as the Honda goes, technically it is allegedly based on an older engine, but it's indeed unique.
It is to Toyota.... But relative to the Subaru- how many are they selling? Like the 2.0l in the Miata is also in the 3, and is the basis of all of the turbo 2.0- so there are probably 200-300k sales of that one motor. So relative to the Miata, it's super cheap.
And given this partnership, whatever Toyota put into the powertrain, it's a gift to Subaru. Toyota is getting nothing. When they realize that they have been taken advantage of, well.... They are not going to stay in this game too long.
If Toyota really wanted to save this car, they would put the new, cheap 2.5l that make 200hp. May take some restyling, but it would be a perfect motor that would let the car last for a very long time.
Furious_E said:In reply to alfadriver :
Pretty sure like all of the current Subaru lineup offers some variant of the motor. So yes, it is unique within the Toyota lineup, but then again it really isn't a Toyota.
Yes, but Toyota is half the reason the car exists. And without them, what are the odds Subaru keeps making it?
alfadriver said:Furious_E said:In reply to alfadriver :
Pretty sure like all of the current Subaru lineup offers some variant of the motor. So yes, it is unique within the Toyota lineup, but then again it really isn't a Toyota.
Yes, but Toyota is half the reason the car exists. And without them, what are the odds Subaru keeps making it?
Zilch, but it's not because the car has a unique engine, because it doesn't.
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