Jeep Patriot vs Subaru Forester

I vote Forester XT 5 speed but they are not without faults. I am the aforementioned rallycross driver. Its my wifes DD at about 80,000 miles.

Clutch went around 75,000. Rear wheel bearings are bad. Tore the drivers side CV boot at the rallycross last week. Gets crappy mileage but is fun to drive.

It ran 14.9 stock and with an STI turbo, tune and exhaust can get down to the low 13's.

If you want to do this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAuX_9Ic0Wk&feature=context&context=C3e39cdfADOEgsToPDskK8cM0w3k045evzX3X9TjxN Get the Forester.

If you want just transportation the Patriot is probably fine.

Greg:

Your rallycross course looks way, way, way faster than the ones I run on.

<-- also runs a Forester XT and rallycross has me looking for all new suspension components, since mine got trashed by ruts.

I am now going to go google the Patriot and check out it's off road credentials

Surprisingly that was a slower and tighter course than I am used to. I also placed second so people concerned about their cars were going quite a bit slower. One guy was in a rental Focus and when hitting those bumps first lost all fender liners then hole'd the radiator. I think I have a video of that too.

There were a couple sections were I was at the rev limited in second gear. Usually get into third gear but FL has unusually wide open courses.

So I finally drove a Patriot 5 speed yesterday. It's a 4x2, which is all I can find around here that isn't cursed with the CVT. I was actually pretty impressed with it. Good power, surprisingly nice shifter, acceptable handling and braking. Interior is cheap plastic, but the way my wife hogs up a car that just makes for easy cleaning. Crank windows...didn't think they even made those anymore. I think if she drives it and likes it we may get one.

My dilemma is accepting a 4x2 Jeep. First, it just seems wrong (but if this vehicle had a Dodge badge on it instead I wouldn't care, right?). The 28-30 mpg highway is easy to take though. We discussed the need for 4x4 and agreed for the maybe 3-5 snow days we get here front wheel drive with decent tires is probably all that's needed. My only other concern is resale value, or more specifically, being able to sell a stick shift, 2wd Patriot 6-8 years from now when it's time to replace it. It's easy as pie to sell a Subaru with 200,000 miles and a stick for $2000. Not so sure I can do much other than trade the 'riot off when the time comes, which will annoy me.

Aeromoto wrote:

So need that for a few cars at work.

I am following this thread with anticipation

ddavidv wrote: My dilemma is accepting a 4x2 Jeep...

I wouldn't worry about the 2wd thing so much unless you go a lot of places where you NEED it. Most people will have no clue. 2wd Jeeps:

jrw1621 wrote: Patroit did not come w/ 3.7L. You may be thinking of the Liberty which does have a 3.7L and a frame unlike the unibody of the Patriot.

I had a 2002 Liberty. It does NOT have a seperate frame. Very good vehicle.

The DJ3A was known as the Duster in civilian trim. Came in various versions. Convertable, hardtop.

Just as another thought, if 4WD/AWD isn't a necessity: What about the Acura TSX wagon? I know a few people with them and they're fairly fun to drive (along the level of the last-gen Legacy GT wagon), handle well, look good, and are reliable. They also get good fuel economy, IIRC. And FWD is fine for occasional snow if you have the right tires.

If we are onto other than 4wd I can think of a few options

Mazda6 wagon Focus ZXW (you can get an SE wagon with a 2.3 Duratec ) Volvo Wagon

here is you an odd ball one Saab wagon. Get a nice one now before you can't anymore

When I was shopping for my X3 everyone was pushing the 325 wagon so 325 wagon

As to the other choices: Mazda 6 wagon, mega-super-rare with a stick shift. I'm pretty certain the Acura doesn't come with a stick, and it probably is more than my price point. Focus is a no-go; neither of us cared for it and the build quality isn't great (window regulators, anyone?). Volvo's are all autotragic, turbo, premium fuel and pricey parts. Saab makes a wonderful wagon that you currently can't get parts for. Someone today suggested a Hyundai Elantra but the styling is kind of off-putting.

The 2wd Jeep thing is bothering me less and less. I didn't know you could get a 2wd CJ but did know about all the rest.

So mark your calendars and get ready to say "I told you so". Sitting in my driveway, still dripping tire shine.

2008 2.4, stick, 4x4 Sport model. If I'd spent the same amount on a used Forester I wouldn't have gotten newer than a 2005. Best of all, I looked under the front and saw two brand new MOOG ball joints. This is the first American car we've bought since my wife's gawdawful '89 Cavalier she had when we got married. I'll try to report occasionally and let the board know how it's doing.

ddavidv wrote: Best of all, I looked under the front and saw two brand new MOOG ball joints.

So you're happy that it only took a few years for it to eat a set of ball joints?

I like it.

I think it is a real jeep, and so do these guys

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/reviews/patriot/index.htm

Good choice man! I dig the color too. Our Patriot was our first American vehicle as well. I'm cool with jeep as far as American goes, but that's about it- I just dig what they do. I checked in on that ball joint problem that was mentioned earlier in this thread. Nope. My bro in- law who is a Chrysler mechanic never heard of that one. The only issue we've had in over 50k miles is our rear turn signal bulb going out.

-Hamid

Josh wrote:

ddavidv wrote: Best of all, I looked under the front and saw two brand new MOOG ball joints.

So you're happy that it only took a few years for it to eat a set of ball joints?

Please let me know what the perfect car is that you drive that requires no parts in 80,000 miles. If it were a Subaru, it would probably have needed a rear wheel bearing by now, or be ready for head gaskets. Agreed, ball joints should not wear out in 60-80k miles, but these do. It's well known and documented and every dealer service writer knows it. Provided there is a better quality replacement out there (in this case, MOOG), it's not a big deal to me. I don't expect to have to replace these again before the odo hits 160-180k miles, if ever. It's a big deal to most people because the stealership and most mechanics will simply replace the entire control arm, as that is how ChryCo sells them.

AverageH said: I checked in on that ball joint problem that was mentioned earlier in this thread. Nope. My bro in- law who is a Chrysler mechanic never heard of that one.

Not sure what rock he's living under. I asked multiple people in the business what goes bad on these cars and without fail the response was "ball joints". The irony, in perusing the owner's manual last night, is there is actually a mention of the ball joints and that they are "lubed for life". I've never seen them mentioned in any other manual. LOL

The one issue I've found with the Jeep so far is the tire pressure light was on. I know the one in my Sebring is fussy about a couple pound variance so didn't think much of it. I found out, however, that the one wheel has a plain valve stem in it and the TPMS unit was rolling around in the glovebox. Now to see if the dealer will send me one (90 day warranty) since they are an hour drive each way from where I live.

ddavidv wrote:

Josh wrote:

ddavidv wrote: Best of all, I looked under the front and saw two brand new MOOG ball joints.

So you're happy that it only took a few years for it to eat a set of ball joints?

Please let me know what the perfect car is that you drive that requires no parts in 80,000 miles.

You didn't specify 80k, I was figuring more like 50k on a 2008. I had to make a smartass comment though, I have a slightly less than rational dislike of Jeeps, particularly recent ones.

My uncle has a Patroit...not sure on the year but it's silver. He swore up and down on Cherokees before this one, had a few of them too. But, family stuff and fuel economy made him buy something that my aunt could use too.

I had a chance to drive it, just some simple errands around town, nothing fancy. Drive great, felt comfortable, CVT responded very well and it felt snappy too! They drive a lot from Detroit to Cleveland/Youngstown for family visits and stuff, and they have no complaints at all with it. No issues with reliability as far as i can tell either. They've had it for two years now I think.

Its a solid car, and I think you'll be happy with it! Keep us posted on your adventures!

Now that Jeep Compass...not sold on that one

I don't know why, cause I've been off road maybe 5 times my whole life, but I love that my jeep has a solid front axle.

Joey

ddavidv wrote: The irony, in perusing the owner's manual last night, is there is actually a mention of the ball joints and that they are "lubed for life". I've never seen them mentioned in any other manual. LOL

It was. In this case it's life was 80,000 miles

ddavidv wrote: So mark your calendars and get ready to say "I told you so". Sitting in my driveway, still dripping tire shine.

Welcome to the "You bought a car that the GRM board told you not to" club.

I hope you enjoy yours as much I do mine.

Love the color.

Josh wrote: You didn't specify 80k, I was figuring more like 50k on a 2008. I had to make a smartass comment though, I have a slightly less than rational dislike of Jeeps, particularly recent ones.

I have a dislike of Jeeps, mostly old ones, because I've had a few and they were all terrible. Believe me, no one is more surprised than I that one is in my driveway, but the exhaustive research I did before purchase pointed out the surprisingly few problem areas with these. Even a mediocre car company can get one right every so often.

Pretty much every Chryco product has a tendency to chew up front end parts. No surprise here.