Jeep

ignorant wrote: When I first got my jeep I had tons of Jeep-Jingoism, specifically early CJ-Jingoism. I learned my lesson after getting stuck many times in Paragon had having everything from a Turtle expedition vehicle to a stock off the showrooom floor 4runner pull me out. So then I learned some humility and realized that all the bullE36 M3 stays at the trailhead or as good natured ribbing. Been too long since I was a member of the BMJA http://www.bmja.org/ Been a long time...

I'm not trying to question your driving, but it's possible it was driver skill rather than choice of vehicle. I'm sure there are people that could outdrive me in a stock Wrangler versus me in a rigged-out one.

Take a good driver in a stock Wrangler versus a beginning or poor driver in a modded-out 4Runner/Defender/Samurai/FJ40/Wrangler and they will outperform them, pull them out, come out with less damage etc.. Take the same driver and put them in a stock 4Runner/Defender/Samurai/FJ40 and they will outperform a modded X,Y,Z etc...

DILYSI Dave wrote: We call those "Juggys". The jeep equivalent of a "Truggy" (Truck based buggy).

This -

Nevermind that it is being used as a tractor in this pic! lol It belongs to my BIL in Oklahoma.

Didn't meen to diss the Samurai, they are capable if a little light duty. The K5 like most old Chevys is all about the option list, from mild to wild. And sometimes the extra size helps, sometimes it hurts. Almost the exact opposite of the Samurai. A jeep with open diffs front and rear is a poser, not a 4wd. Same with any 4x4. One wheel pulling in front, and one pushing in back is NOT four wheel drive.

You'd be amazed at how far a pair of open diffs will get you offroad. You have to keep your wheels on the ground so it takes a bit more thought and careful placement than simply locking up and pounding over whatever you can see. As long as you don't spin or lift them, you're still getting power to all four wheels. Of course, I'm mostly used to rock crawling instead of mud bogging because rocks, we got and mud we don't.

Brother-in-law's Juggy. Built in his backyard, true grassroots style. See that little bit of black frame rail, the narrowed grille and the side panels? That's all the Jeep that's in this thing

4eyes wrote: One wheel pulling in front, and one pushing in back is NOT four wheel drive.

Typical newbie misconception. When you are driving a Jeep in 4WD power is NOT going to one rear and one front just like when driving down the road in a Miata power is NOT going to only one rear tire. Because of how an open differential works power, like electricity, will follow the path of least resistance. This means if there is a tire in the air, mud, gravel or on a cat that's the wheel that will spin. Now a limited slip will limit how much of that power goes to that slipping wheel, and a locker will send power to both wheels equally in all situations.
And like Keith said, you would be shocked how far open differentials can take you.....especially if you know the "poor mans locker" trick

Keith wrote:

I like.

I have no interest in a Juggy, but at some point might 4 link the front suspension just to get rid of the rock catcher front shackles. I also like his choice of motivation. I'm keeping my eyes open for a rollover of the 5.3 Aluminum / 4L60 / 4x4 variety. It's already got a transfer case of the proper orientation. I'd drop the entire drivetrain in as a single unit. No need to futz with adapters and such. I love my 4.0, but after 252K, it's weezing a little and leaking a lot.

No comments from GRM folk...

Do us (Jeep lovers) a favor and take your Outback and Jeep to an off road event and write an article about how each did.

So disappointing coming from GRM folks, Outback....seriously?!

Tom is planning to be out at FM for the Summer Camp this August. We're only 100 miles from Moab, and we can even get there overland. I know the trails around there reasonably well and I've worked as a trail leader at the Land Rover National Rally.

Tom, borrow a Jeep from Chrysler and I can arrange a personal introduction to the mecca of off-roading. Might even be able to arrange a ride in that Juggy...

Keith wrote: Tom is planning to be out at FM for the Summer Camp this August. We're only 100 miles from Moab, and we can even get there overland. I know the trails around there reasonably well and I've worked as a trail leader at the Land Rover National Rally. Tom, borrow a Jeep from Chrysler and I can arrange a personal introduction to the mecca of off-roading. Might even be able to arrange a ride in that Juggy...

<--- Likes

I have some Jeep love (more HMMV love, though. They're pretty darn capable too.) My offroad experience is mostly from Glammis dunes in California and various sandy trails in Death Valley, not mud and rocks.

I didn't drive this example of the Jeep, so I really don't have much constructive to add.

I would LOVE to go to Moab in August, and I just found this event in Daytona this weekend. I'm going to go check it out, if it's cool I'll post some pictures.

http://www.jeepbeach.com/

Tom Heath wrote: I have some Jeep love (more HMMV love, though. They're pretty darn capable too.) My offroad experience is mostly from Glammis dunes in California and various sandy trails in Death Valley, not mud and rocks. I didn't drive this example of the Jeep, so I really don't have much constructive to add. I would LOVE to go to Moab in August, and I just found this event in Daytona this weekend. I'm going to go check it out, if it's cool I'll post some pictures. http://www.jeepbeach.com/

We've got a few folks heading down to Jeep Beach. I would have, but there is the SEDIV that I'm going to instead.

miatame wrote: No comments from GRM folk... Do us (Jeep lovers) a favor and take your Outback and Jeep to an off road event and write an article about how each did. So disappointing coming from GRM folks, Outback....seriously?!

I said I'd go into debt for one, how is that no love?!

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/new-cars/2010-87-wrangler-sahara-4x4/

I've spent tons of time mudding in the Midwest, rock crawling in Colorado, and Moab UT, and dune hopping in Florida and the Northeast. I absolutely love "wheeling", but that doesn't mean everyone does.

An Outback is perfect for rally-cross, but would be hopelessly out of place on any serious 4wd trail. A Jeep is at home on serious trails, but hopelessly out of place on twisty paved roads. It may make for a good comparison, as the outback would probably impress on gravel roads, and the Jeep may surprise some with it's nimbleness on the street. Heck, if it is an excuse to go play in the mud / dirt / rocks......I'm in!

I never understood the passion for Jeeps. For years and years I have driven "sports cars" as daily drivers and through some of the worst winters Michigan can offer up. I have autocrossed and road raced them and have enjoyed every minute of it. This will never change but..................last fall I got a bug to get a Jeep. I originally was looking for a Wrangler (TJ) but I ended up with a Cherokee (XJ) as it was a little more practical and could haul more stuff. Now I get it. I have a three inch lift on it with 31s and I love it. It is somewhat "basic" but it will go anywhere. Now I want a Wrangler as a dedicated off road vehicle as well. It's a whole new and different world with off roading and I highly recommend it especially to this group. It may be the ultimate GRM experience. In my cars I avoid bumps, water puddles and dirt roads, in the Jeep I look for them. I need special ramps for the cars just to get them high enough to change the oil, with the Jeep I can change the oil with out any jack or ramp. Both are great. I am looking forward to taking the Jeep to Silverlake dunes on the western side of Michigan this summer for some dune action. Bottom line...try it and you will probably like it. I am keeping my cars but I love the Jeep too.

My latest cherokee is the ugliest thing known to man..

I think i will lift it with spacers, blocks, and shackles, weld the rear diff, throw on used 31s, strip it down to seats and a steering wheel, and tow it to Colorado on a tow bar and use it to run through a bunch of mining trails in the mountains. Ive been wanting to go into those mountains for 2 years now...

I simply cant do that as cheaply or as effectively with any car-based vehicle. Id rather flat-tow a dedicated, expendable cheap cherokee behind my Magnum and leave the nice car on the pavement than buy an Outback that will SORT OF do both (towing +comfortable+ offroading? questionable) at the risk of tearing up a car that costs a lot of money and leaving me no way to get home. my .02

blocks =

Blocks= sagged springs and wheelhop

My first trail run is in three weeks. Really looking forward to it. I don't have a Jeep (87 ramcharger-posted on here before), but I'm looking forward to the experience and seeing what its all about. I'll have video and pics to post about it I'm sure.

I dig the whole Jeep thing, but I like any of the off road rigs, really.

Tell you what. You guys PAY for my upgrades, and ill do whatever you want.

I dont care how long the springs last. If they sag, i will add another leaf from some car im parting out.

My first trail run is in three weeks. Really looking forward to it. I don't have a Jeep (87 ramcharger-posted on here before), but I'm looking forward to the experience and seeing what its all about. I'll have video and pics to post about it I'm sure.

Take pics and post back somewhere!

I havent been off-road yet either, but ive got a totally worthless vehicle and some friends to pull me out so i think im about ready to try!

Don't stress about the upgrades. It's like taking a car to the autocross for the first time - you don't need to have race rubber, harnesses and upgraded suspension. You'd be amazed at what a 100% stock vehicle can do if you have a good spotter to guide you.

Vigo wrote: Tell you what. You guys PAY for my upgrades, and ill do whatever you want. I dont care how long the springs last. If they sag, i will add another leaf from some car im parting out.

That's exactly what I did on my old beater cherokee........the extra junker leaf fixed the sag and I never had any wheel hop anyway.

I do have a rig with an all spring lift, but that was $$ and I'm not sure it was worth the premium considering the trails it sees.

"And like Keith said, you would be shocked how far open differentials can take you.....especially if you know the "poor mans locker" trick" You meen, left footing the brake to provide drag to both sides of the dif? Been there done that. I grew up in the Ozarks and learned how to drive in a Korean War vintage Jeep. I still say a locker in the rear, and a airlocker/elocker in the front makes a night and day difference. I prefer lockers to lift. And would be happy with just a locker in back/open in front, and a winch plus 31" tires for all of my off roading.

Locked front and rear makes a pretty capable stock truck really frigging impressive. But, it can also get you in trouble just as easy. In an open/open truck, you'll lose traction well before you roll yourself onto your side. With lockers, its up to you to know how far up you can go before you stop.

Also, certain trucks need a locker more than others. Pretty sure my X wouldn't be near as good without the locker. Actually I know I wouldn't have made it through black gap without it

Yeah, an open front and locked rear on modest tires would shock most people. And locked/locked is incredible but I've learned this from years or wheeling; the "better" your Jeep is, the worse it'll be stuck and the harder it'll be to get you out. But I'll say this, my last CJ was basically a Rubicon before they made it, 33's, lockers (Detroits front and rear) in the Dana 44's, shackle reversal kit, 4:10 gears etc. and the Warn 8274 saved my plenty of times, even righted me after a roll.

fiat panda Jeep?

http://hubpages.com/hub/Revealed-2011-Jeep-Phoenix-Based-On-Fiat-Panda-4x4

gonna happen http://www.allpar.com/cars/chrysler/2013/

And would be happy with just a locker in back/open in front, and a winch plus 31" tires for all of my off roading.

Good to hear, because this is my plan for the cherokee. Except replace expensive locker with cheap welding rod.