Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
12/28/19 4:19 p.m.

Man there are a ton of them out there. There is almost zero available in decent OEM or aftermarket lights. The OEM stuff is old, cracked, crazed and they still want $300 a side for them. I have never had luck with Chinese headlights. They universally seem have horrible reflectors. 

So my question is this. Can I buy a set of cheap Chinese headlights, cut them apart, and install a decent set of Hella projectors in them?

I'm thinking something like this...

Cut apart with something like these installed. Two high beams, two low beams. Costs would be higher than buying old OEM lights but I think I would end up with better lighting. 

 

Has anyone done something like this? 

 

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
12/28/19 4:24 p.m.

If you do it, I'd just by the cheapest aftermarket ones you can with the least extra plastic inside.  So probably something that resembles a cheap imitation of the stock lights. 

I see no reason you couldn't do it and get good results.  I've been considering something similar for SWMBO's Prius, as it has horrid headlights. 

Run_Away
Run_Away Dork
12/28/19 4:52 p.m.

Yes, it's been done.

 

The Retrofit Source actually sells kits to do exactly that for two of the more popular brands

https://www.theretrofitsource.com/morimoto-retroquik-spyder.html

 

https://www.theretrofitsource.com/morimoto-retroquik-spec-d.html

 

Other brands may use the same mounting template, it's just a matter of figuring out which one they have

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
12/28/19 8:45 p.m.

I have ebay replacement "Euro Smilies" for my e30. The frames are a bit flimsy compared to stock, but the light output is easily better than the OEM ones, to be honest. Kind of depends on what car you have as to whether the ebay stuff is going to be an improvement or not. 

84FSP
84FSP SuperDork
12/28/19 10:25 p.m.

Trying this on my bro's 2912 4500 work van.  It still had H4 sealed beams?  After one Xmas fail having bought him the led 9005/9006 bulbs all the other vehicles had, I found an H4 upgrade.

TGMF
TGMF Reader
12/29/19 6:41 a.m.

If you just want a stock style swap look into CAPA certified aftermarket. They are required to meet or exceed FMVSS108 testing, same as OE lamps. 

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
12/29/19 8:45 a.m.
TGMF said:

If you just want a stock style swap look into CAPA certified aftermarket. They are required to meet or exceed FMVSS108 testing, same as OE lamps. 

laughlaughlaugh

CAPA is nothing more than buying a sticker on ill fitting junk parts.

spandak
spandak Reader
12/29/19 11:09 a.m.

There's a fairly common projector that Boxster guys have been mounting in stock headlights. If I can find the link I'll post it. The results look good and if I remember right the projectors are about $40. 

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
12/29/19 11:57 a.m.

I have a couple projectors you can have for shipping cost.  

MarkRosegold
MarkRosegold
12/29/19 1:44 p.m.

Those Retro-Quik kits are junk as well. Basically anything Morimoto is junk. 

 

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
12/29/19 2:17 p.m.
MarkRosegold said:

Those Retro-Quik kits are junk as well. Basically anything Morimoto is junk. 

 

That seems like a bunch of BS to me, especially considering you just joined to say this.  The Morimoto projectors aren't the best out there, but saying they're worse than a set of mediocre OE halogen reflectors is really, really hard to believe.  The Mini H1 7.0s I've got in the E38 are a significant improvement over the stock Bosch low beam proejectors it had before.  Comparing them to the 80w H4 halogen lows in the Jeep (which are fairly decent for halogen lights), the Mini H1s are notably brighter and have a little more beam width.  I can't say they're meaningfully better as far as actually being able to see things that matter, but they're certainly not worse. 

Now admittedly, the retro-quik kits mentioned above for the eBay lights are kinda mediocre, as they use not-so-great projectors (they're cheap knock-offs of an older version of the Morimoto Mini H1). 

MarkRosegold
MarkRosegold New Reader
12/29/19 10:37 p.m.
rslifkin said:

That seems like a bunch of BS to me, especially considering you just joined to say this. 

You won't be the first person to be fooled by a projector retrofit. Nor will you be the last. 

Feel free to fact check me. The test results for the Morimoto were paid for by the founder/owner of TRS. The Morimotos actually failed to put out enough light at 0.6D, 1.3R to be considered legal (minimum 10,000 cd). Remember, even the $5.99 sealed beams at AutoZone are legal, so even those sealed beams put out >10,000 candela at 0.6D, 1.3R. 

Humans are 46% more sensitive to blue HID light than to yellow halogen light, and the projectors create ungodly amounts of foreground illumination , so it's easy to see how people fool themselves. 

 

 

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
12/30/19 7:28 a.m.

If I go this route, I'll probably use Hella products. They are a known quality and make a large amount of OEM lighting.

The Chinese products in the car now pretty well suck and I don't want to spend $500-$1000 to end up in the same boat. 

The lights in there now are in the 6000k range and the color is particularly bad for actually seeing things. Unfortunately, the majority of what is sold for modern lighting seems to be in that range. I'm considering going back to a halogen projector for high and low beams. The Hella units are about $100 each. 

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
12/30/19 8:38 a.m.
MarkRosegold said:the projectors create ungodly amounts of foreground illumination , so it's easy to see how people fool themselves.

I will say that's my one complaint with the projectors I've got.  The foreground is a little too bright (and definitely a bit brighter than the stock projectors), although I've seen worse from some OEM setups.  But the light thrown a couple hundred feet down the road is also much better than the stock projectors.  If I can figure out a good way to reduce the foreground on these things, it'll be high on my list.  These projectors weren't my first pick to use, but of all the Bi-Xenons I found, they had the closest form factor to the existing low beam only projectors, so I didn't have to modify the lights to make them fit, retained stock auto-leveling, etc.  Realistically, the low beams were good enough before and they're good enough now, but the high beams are a lot better with the projectors + 9011 HIR in reflectors compared to just the halogen high beams previously.  They throw further, but the projectors also add a good bit more width, which is a good thing on deer infested roads. 

I still don't believe the charts for the distant lighting intensity though, as I've driven several of the vehicles in those charts and they absolutely put less light down the road than just about any non-halogen projectors I've seen short of some of the really cheap knock offs.  Some of the early Morimoto stuff (particularly the early Mini H1s) wasn't very good at all.  And the cheap knock offs of it are usually worse.  But the MH1 7.0s are surprisingly good for what they cost.  The cutoff step is a little bigger than ideal and they could do with a dimmer foreground, but other than that, they're at least on par with some of the OE projectors out there, but not up to the standard of some of the really good OE projectors (of course, they're also cheaper and smaller, so that's expected).  Installing the upgraded bulb holders offered for them did make a significant difference though.  Before that, one was pretty good, the other was mediocre, as the bulb positioning with the stock clips isn't great.  With the new holders, the mediocre one got a lot better light distribution and the other one got slightly better, making them both equal as far as my eyes can tell.  If it matters, I'm using the matching Morimoto XB bulbs in the projectors and the ballasts are the stock Hella Gen 3 ballasts that came with the car, so not cheap ballasts of questionable quality and output. 

As far as color temperature, anything above the 4300 - 4500k range used by most stock HIDs is awful for seeing.  I've been debating swapping the 4500k bulbs in my projectors for the 3800k ones to see if it's a noticeable improvement (even though the warmer color temp bulbs put out slightly less light).  I haven't given any of the newer LED projector stuff more than a quick glance based on this, as it all seems to be 6000k+ color temperature. 

I do love the color rendering of halogens, but unfortunately, packaging enough light output with halogens is a challenge on most cars.  I managed on the Jeep, but that's with 80w low beams and the high beams + driving lights totals up to 600 watts.  And the whole front end is lights, pretty much.  In the BMW, power draw would be an issue, but trying to stay within the form factor of the stock lights, heat would be a bigger issue.  I'd be limited to significantly less total light output than I've got now, as 2x 65w bulbs (1 being high beam only) per side is about all I could manage without significant electrical changes or heat concerns. 

MarkRosegold
MarkRosegold New Reader
12/30/19 10:26 a.m.
Toyman01 said:

If I go this route, I'll probably use Hella products. They are a known quality and make a large amount of OEM lighting.

The Chinese products in the car now pretty well suck and I don't want to spend $500-$1000 to end up in the same boat. 

The lights in there now are in the 6000k range and the color is particularly bad for actually seeing things. Unfortunately, the majority of what is sold for modern lighting seems to be in that range. I'm considering going back to a halogen projector for high and low beams. The Hella units are about $100 each. 

Hella's 90mm bi-halogen projectors are very nice. High-performing. You're right--there's a world of difference between German-engineeered (Hella) lights and Chinese crap with a Japanese-sounding name slapped on it (Morimoto) ;).  

The Russians only use Hella and other OEM projectors. 

 

https://www.drive2.com/b/540406667590763395/

 

Also, never judge a book, or headlamp, by its cover. 

 

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