Just this one time, the Holy Trinity isn't the answer......

It's true, Miata/E30/P71 is not the correct answer this time.

My S52 swap into the E30 is coming close to being done (should be dropping the trans/engine in this Saturday), and my worn out DD is nearing the end of it's life. The E30 build has turned into a very focused toy car that will most likely be a bear to drive everyday, and I never drove it in inclement weather anyway so....

I'm thinking come Spring/early-Summer I'm going to replace with a nice, fun to drive DD, that actually has AC and a decent stereo for instance. It would also be nice if it got better highway mileage than my current Z34 Monte Carlo's 24mpg. So an early model RX-8 is out.

At this point, I've basically narrowed it down to two different cars, of which I will buy the nicest/newest one that I find and afford.

R53 Cooper S 96-99 BMW M3

I'm leaning heavily toward the Cooper S. What should I look out for? Problem areas? Etc? I have been looking around at NAM, but want some more personal experience from the self wrenchers and such.

GO!

Oh and I'd also consider a S197....

From what I've read the early Mini Coopers had expensive transmission problems up until 2006.

Id rather have a 4 door M3. I havent ever ridden in or driven one, but it looks like alot nicer car than the cooper. In general I would avoid the 2 door M3, just becasue I see many of them being badly abused(start the engine up and then take off 10 seconds later and bounce off the rev limiter, parking lot doughnuts, etc), and the 4 door ones are usually driven much more nicely and look well taken care of.

^Really? The "internet" wisdom is that E36s have crap interior quality.

I couldn't do a 4 door, I just couldn't. I hate the way they look. And don't need the utility. I'm seeing LOW MILEAGE M3s in big cities already go for less than $15k, cars with 55-70k miles.

I also like the Cooper for the potential mid 30s hwy mpg if you can keep your foot out of it. My round trip commute is 45-50 miles per day.

Honestly rather than an E36 M3 lok at an E46 330i preferably with the ZHP package. Likely in the same price/mileage range and really an overall better car. As between the Mini and the BMW though, the BMW will be a whole lot more comfy for a 45-50 mile commute than the Mini (says the guy with the same commute).

I say you can't really go wrong with any of the choices in this thread (R53 Cooper S, E36 M3, E46 ZHP). Drive them all and buy the one that gets you going the most, or the one that you find the best deal on. I would own any of those cars given the right circumstances. I don't mind the insurance/registration/payment savings I get with my non-M E36 though :).

For a DD I'll echo an E46 ZHP. They are phenomenal cars and I would own one myself except they were out of budget when I bought my "little sister" 325i.

Since you have a beast/toy, the extra cush and weight of the 330i isn't a problem for competition. I get 25 mpg in my 325 in mostly town driving, and I'm not easy on it. With a freeway commute and a softer foot I'd bet 28 is easily doable and 30 isn't out of the question.

Well if you are looking for a 2 door car, id agree with the sugestions of looking at the E46 bmws instead. I think they look better than the E36 coupes, and have probably not been abused so badly. At least from my observations, the majority of 2 door E36 m3s i see on the street are driven by street racing flatbiller types, and are in alot worse shape than the 4 doors are.

How's the reliability/Cost of parts/And such for the E46? I also have even looked at what they are selling for. Basically I want to stay south of $15k when I buy a car.

That's the one thing that usually scares me away from new cars, overly complicated electrical and expensive as crap to work on. I'm also sick of only having rough riding "race" cars and/or junk cars.

I want to drive something nice for once.

So, you've decided that your BMW toy car isn't going to cut it for regular driving, and you've narrowed down your other choices to a BMW or a BMW.

Interesting.

Bryce

Just to drag the conversation the other way for a post or two, what S197 are you thinking?

It's generally accepted that E46 are more reliable than E36 cars and that the E36 was where BMW found out exactly where the line on cost cutting impacting reliability was. My '99 328i was darned reliable when I owned it from 100k miles through 168k miles. I would not say that the E46 cars are overly complicated electrically or any other way nor are they exceptionally expensive to work on. Depending on tires I would see 32-35mpg on the highway.

well, about all I can really add is I've spent a fair amount of time with both cars. My g/f owned a '97 M3 when we started dated. It was a stock car. and she kept it in pristine condition. Her "beater" car was a '93 VW Passat VR6 wagon that was giving her trouble. She was in love with the new MINI at first sight and then a friend made her test drive his.

A few weeks later she had an '03 MCS. Then she sold the VW but had no intention of selling the M3. ...until about a year later when she realized she had to almost 'force' herself to drive the M3 once in awhile. She sold the M3 and hasn't looked back (although I wish I had bought it...).

As far as which to buy? It's hard to really compare them. The M3 is definitely more capable... but the MINI is arguably a better daily driver and will get slightly better mileage. Both have their "issues" to look for. Both have more specific forums that can give you a lot of info. Searching here will give a ton of recent threads about the M3. Motoringfile.com has very good info about the MINI and all of its versions.

The transmission issues with the MINI were mainly with the early Coopers (non-supercharged versions).

While E46 ZHPs can be found for less than $15k, they are going to have some miles on them. Not necessarily a bad thing, just something to keep in mind. I do love mine, though it will be for sale soon (money reasons). If you look at the numbers, it's very similar to an E36 M3, but more modern, quiet, refined, and a bit bigger. The E36 M3 does have a real LSD and might be more visceral and fun, but the ZHP will be a better DD.

I almost bought a 330i ZHP and kinda wish I would have but I really do enjoy the S197 mustang as a DD. Comfortable as all hell, v8, decent MPGs even with the S/C on it, plenty of trunk space, only complaint is a lack of the number 6 on the shift knob.

I still refuse to accept the P71 as part of the "holy trinity" I think you guys are on crack. If anything it should be E30/Miata/Astro van..

ignorant wrote: I still refuse to accept the P71 as part of the "holy trinity" I think you guys are on crack. If anything it should be E30/Miata/Astro van, honda fit....

FIXED!!!!

ignorant wrote: I still refuse to accept the P71 as part of the "holy trinity" I think you guys are on crack. If anything it should be E30/Miata/Astro van..

I believe P71 counts as you can still autocross it, they can be had for dirt cheap, and with the amount of interchange with Mustang parts, there's gobs of aftermarket goodies to be had.

Fit_Is_Slo wrote:

ignorant wrote: I still refuse to accept the P71 as part of the "holy trinity" I think you guys are on crack. If anything it should be E30/Miata/ 9C1.

FIXED!!!!

BACKDATED!!

We've owned our 06 MCS since new. We've had very few problems with it but only have 50k miles so far. The later 05-06 had fixes to a lot of earlier weaknesses. Very fun car.

Nashco wrote: So, you've decided that your BMW toy car isn't going to cut it for regular driving, and you've narrowed down your other choices to a BMW or a BMW. Interesting. Bryce

A seriously modded 21 year old BMW, with no a/c, p/s, 40 series tires on 17s, super tight suspension on coilovers, etc vs a newer, nicer but still fun to drive BMW. What's wrong with that?

I was thinking the nicest '05-'06 manual GT I could afford/find. Anyone have an opinion on these? I got to drive one very briefly a few years back, I just remember the inside feeling small but it being fun to drive.

I just bought an 06, i don't have a problem with the interior, front two seats are roomy as hell, trunk is pretty spacious (well it's the first non-hatch I've ever owned so of course its spacious to me), rides smooth, power is smooth, and an all around great looking car. I thought I'd never own a ford, but I am falling in love with this thing. The ladies seem to <3 it as well.

z31maniac wrote: ^Really? The "internet" wisdom is that E36s have crap interior quality.

I would say the E36's interior is no worse than any other car from it's time frame. Most 90's cars with cloth headliners seem to have them fall down (fell on my ti, my saab, and my mom's ex-sunfire) depending on where the car spend most of it's life.

Same with door panels and the dash. At leasrt E36 Dashes do not seem to readily crack like that of the E30.

Personally, I prefer the E36 over the E46.. looks are subjective, but I think the ride and handling of the earlier car are much better than the later

I think I'd have a really hard time finding a better "all-rounder" than our e36 m3 sedan. Genuinely practical, 28mpg on the highway, sufficient power, great aftermarket, and it NAILS the ride/handling compromise IMHO. Most of the ones you buy will need some catch-up maintenance, but once you do that, you should be set for some time. I do need to drive an e46 some time though.

Regarding the interior: I was happy with it until I sat in an e39, so it really depends what you're used to. Nathan