In reply to kevlarcorolla :
Zilvia 1uz thread I've gotten some good info on the 1uz from this thread even though I didn't swap it into a 240sx. Also, picked up parts on the cheap.
In reply to kevlarcorolla :
Zilvia 1uz thread I've gotten some good info on the 1uz from this thread even though I didn't swap it into a 240sx. Also, picked up parts on the cheap.
yupididit said:NickD said:yupididit said:NickD said:In reply to yupididit :
J-series seem to be much more common and, as a result, cheaper. The LFX is a relative newcomer. Meanwhile, Honda has been cranking out J-series in a number of vehicles for a over a decade. The J-swap also reuses more stock components, keeping the kit cheaper. The LFX is also a real pain to work on, although I have no experience working on Js
What about it makes it a pain to work on? Asking because I'm seriously considering swapping one into my conquest.
The timing system on them is a nightmare. It has a primary chain, and two secondary chains. You have to install a locking plate and set up the Bank 1 secondary timing chain, then set up the primary chain, then rotate the entire engine 20 degrees, install the locking plate on Bank 2 then setup the Bank 2 secondary chain. If it's off a tooth, it sets a check engine light. But the locking plates will still slide on to the cams if it's off a tooth. Get more than a tooth off and you're looking at replacing valves. We get tons of them into our dealership that people have attempted to replace the timing chains themselves, or had an independent shop do them, and have screwed it all up.
The High-Feature V6 has been a troubled engine since it's introduction. Porous heads that leak coolant, valves that build up carbon and stick, timing chains and tensioners and cam actuators that fail reliably at 100K (sometimes earlier), oil consumption, injector failures.
So these kajillion v6 camaro, Cadillacs, and other Chevy cars are having these issues? I never heard of this until now.
The issues seem heaviest in the Traverse/Acadia/Enclave/Outlook, but there was a bulletin on the early 2nd-gen Cadillacs CTS for the porous heads and we've seen it popping up again in the new Colorado, and there are bulletins for misfires due to carbon buildup (basically soak the entire head in top end cleaner) and sticking injectors (due a fuel induction service). GM even extended the warranty on just the timing chains and tensioners and actuators from 100k to 10 year/150k with a special coverage policy. As I was told by an older tech when I first started "When these engines get out of warranty, they are going to keep a lot of techs fed"
Let's be honest though Nick, How many swaps actually get to 100K + miles on the motor. I mean I drive mine a lot and it's only at 25K since the swap. I really don't see that as much of a concern. Shoot with the price of those motors at the yard, You blow one it's super cheap just to toss a new one in with a new clutch and only be out a weekend or 2 and $1000-1200
In reply to bmw88rider :
But if you're pulling one from a salvage yard for use in a swap, there's a good chance that you are going to get one that is higher mileage and might have developed one of these issues. Its just something to be aware of. Might not be a bad idea to put chains, guides and tensioners in before hand, unless you are okay with having to pull the motor back out to put them in after first startup or jam in another engine.
Boy, I look at the two Honda options, and other than the possibility that you might grenade your tranny or rear axle, the V6 really appeals more. Comparable weights. Cheaper, more HP, much more torque. Am I missing something?
Kreb said:Boy, I look at the two Honda options, and other than the possibility that you might grenade your tranny or rear axle, the V6 really appeals more. Comparable weights. Cheaper, more HP, much more torque. Am I missing something?
Grenading the rear axle and trans are the big ones. The K-series has a much larger aftermarket. The J-series also results in you either having to cut a hole in the hood for the intake or have the oil pan super-low to the ground, unless someone has addressed that.
Didn't the company that makes the J series swap kit address Hood clearance? I thought they had instructions for modifying the intake manifold.
I don't know about the oil pan, that sounds pretty scary. Bad things happen to low oil pans.
Kreb said:Boy, I look at the two Honda options, and other than the possibility that you might grenade your tranny or rear axle, the V6 really appeals more. Comparable weights. Cheaper, more HP, much more torque. Am I missing something?
The only J-series swap kit I've seen supported the engine only at the bellhousing end with no supports at the front, as if it were a VW Beetle motor, and even with the oil pan and intake manifoild both cut and welded to make them fit, the oil pan was both the lowest point and well forward of the K-member. There may be better swaps than the one I saw.
MadScientistMatt said:Kreb said:Boy, I look at the two Honda options, and other than the possibility that you might grenade your tranny or rear axle, the V6 really appeals more. Comparable weights. Cheaper, more HP, much more torque. Am I missing something?
The only J-series swap kit I've seen supported the engine only at the bellhousing end with no supports at the front, as if it were a VW Beetle motor, and even with the oil pan and intake manifoild both cut and welded to make them fit, the oil pan was both the lowest point and well forward of the K-member. There may be better swaps than the one I saw.
I would sure hope so!
Jaynen said:Snrub said:Regarding the Ecotec swap: I believe I've read the turbo applicable external bits from the 2.0L LNF engine will fit on the n/a 2.4L LE5. To me that seems like the easiest way to go if you want semi-practical big power.
Ecotec miata mentioned this to me as well, but when I contacted ZZPerformance who are pretty much the ecotec performance aftermarket experts they said the LE5 internals cannot handle the power the LNF can and by the time you start adding FI bits to the LE5 you would be better off starting with the LNF.
That being said I was seeing LE5's for around 900, and LNFs were about 2k sans turbo, however ZZPerformance sells brand new stock turbo/oil line/etc packages for like 900, so for about 1k extra dollars you get an engine that can have factory levels of reliabilty at 300whp vs 200whp with the LE5, taking the LE5 to 300 with FI will potentially create more issues.
ZZP isn't wrong but if all you're looking for is 300 hp you have no issues with the LE5, and last I looked they were under $500 with computer.
Lot's of low mileage motors in the yards, and with the inexpensive cost of the swap you would have at least a few thousand bucks to spend in the ecotec aftermarket vs any of the other swaps.
In reply to Suprf1y :
I think that the ecotec sounds like it hits the sweet spot for power increase, cost, retention of stock parts, weight/drivability, price, aftermarket and availability of engines.
So what would your shopping list for a 300whp/wtq Ecotec look like?
I would assume the AR-5 transmission, and some sort of intercooler kit probably made for a miata from someone elses FI kit but unique hoses.
LKQ shows LE5 for 682-780, according to Ecotec you want the non-oil cooler models otherwise you have to plug that stuff
Looks like an LSJ runs about 1400, LNF is 2200
Which motor ends up with the happiest torque curve?
ZZP has a turbo kit for 1900 for the 2.2 and 2.4 motors
In reply to Floating Doc :
Nothing else is even close.
I think an LE5 with a low'ish boost rotrex to get to 300'ish hp would allow the miata trans and diff to survive.
Heat management shouldn't be as big a deal,other than a rotrex is a bit spendy I think its an easy button to a quick and reliable track car.
In reply to kevlarcorolla :
Isn't there a stock supercharger for that motor? From one of the Cobalt SS?
I know 200 NA is pretty easy with LE5, but ZZPs intercooled K04 kit which is the turbo that comes stock on the LNF says it adds about 80whp which would still put you at 280.
The LSJ was the early cobalt SS supercharger there has never been factory forced induction on the LE5 I believe the LSJ is a 2.0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine
"In December 2008, GM released a Turbo Upgrade Kit for the LNF engine which increases horsepower to 290 hp (220 kW) and torque to up to 340 ft⋅lb (460 N⋅m), depending on the model. The kit retails for $650 and includes remapped engine calibration and upgraded MAP sensors. The kit is covered by the cars' existing GM warranties.[5]"
I think you'd likely spend more doing the lowish boost rotrex than just buying the motor that came from the factory with FI making 260/260 stock and probably an off the shelf tune putting you over 300
They even call out here (2009) that the LNF was new and will probably be better but the LSJ had more parts support
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0907-gm-ecotec-bolt-ons/
People talk about finding junkyard LNF turbo bits or LSJ supercharger bits and bolting them to LE5s but the googling I did on it made it seem less straight forward than it sounds.
In reply to Robbie :
Yes but its an old tech massive heat generating roots blower.
In reply to Jaynen :
Having to replace the complete rear end and axles etc is not so cheap either.
The rotrex hits soft and is pretty easy on driveline bits in comparison to the big power/tq increases with turbos.
Rotrex kit.
Countless people make 235+ whp on stock 1.6's with a simple TDR Rotrex kit. Rotrex's do not suffer from high track temps like turbo cars do, and without the low end torque, they will stay alive. This combo can be had for less than any of the swaps listed.
Disclaimer: I own a 91 VVT swapped Miata w/ C30-94
I think Rotrex is great if thats how much power you want to make but what if you want to hit 300? Note that an intercooled Rotrex on the BP would be my choice for a lower power option, I have to say however riding in my instructors Rotrex powered NB running around 215hp it didn't "feel" fast even though he was about 10-15mph faster than me at the end of the long straights at VIR
kevlarcorolla said:In reply to Jaynen :
Having to replace the complete rear end and axles etc is not so cheap either.
The rotrex hits soft and is pretty easy on driveline bits in comparison to the big power/tq increases with turbos.
I'm actually not finding definitive numbers where you start grenading the later 1.8 torsen diffs
http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/differential
At least not at 300/300 power levels, however I do believe some people go to the rx7 turbo 2 rear
RE ecotec, I don't think the LNF and LSJ fit the ecotec swap kit - clearance issues. In the turbo case I think you can resolve that by re-doing plumbing, but its just adding more cost and complexity to the swap. Its a great motor, but I don't think I would be considering it until you want >300whp. (or turbo the LNF and sell the supercharger to accomplish the same thing). (or grab the saab turbo variant).
The L81 (2.2L) can be found for pennies. The LSJ supercharger does bolt to it and its a simple tune away from mid 200s. But not sure how reliable that is, and with the cost of the kit that seems like an expensive way to make that much power.
ProDarwin said:RE ecotec, I don't think the LNF and LSJ fit the ecotec swap kit - clearance issues. In the turbo case I think you can resolve that by re-doing plumbing, but its just adding more cost and complexity to the swap. Its a great motor, but I don't think I would be considering it until you want >300whp. (or turbo the LNF and sell the supercharger to accomplish the same thing). (or grab the saab turbo variant).
The L81 (2.2L) can be found for pennies. The LSJ supercharger does bolt to it and its a simple tune away from mid 200s. But not sure how reliable that is, and with the cost of the kit that seems like an expensive way to make that much power.
Hmm the MT Motorsport guys didn't seem to think it would be an issue when I spoke to them, clearance in what way? However they did subscribe to "bolt the LNF turbo bits to the LE5" theory
ProDarwin said:RE ecotec, I don't think the LNF and LSJ fit the ecotec swap kit - clearance issues. In the turbo case I think you can resolve that by re-doing plumbing, but its just adding more cost and complexity to the swap. Its a great motor, but I don't think I would be considering it until you want >300whp. (or turbo the LNF and sell the supercharger to accomplish the same thing). (or grab the saab turbo variant).
The L81 (2.2L) can be found for pennies. The LSJ supercharger does bolt to it and its a simple tune away from mid 200s. But not sure how reliable that is, and with the cost of the kit that seems like an expensive way to make that much power.
FWIW if I am doing something besides FI on the BP I am looking for 300whp+ reliably without the issues of 300whp+ on the BP
Jaynen said:ProDarwin said:RE ecotec, I don't think the LNF and LSJ fit the ecotec swap kit - clearance issues. In the turbo case I think you can resolve that by re-doing plumbing, but its just adding more cost and complexity to the swap. Its a great motor, but I don't think I would be considering it until you want >300whp. (or turbo the LNF and sell the supercharger to accomplish the same thing). (or grab the saab turbo variant).
The L81 (2.2L) can be found for pennies. The LSJ supercharger does bolt to it and its a simple tune away from mid 200s. But not sure how reliable that is, and with the cost of the kit that seems like an expensive way to make that much power.
Hmm the MT Motorsport guys didn't seem to think it would be an issue when I spoke to them, clearance in what way? However they did subscribe to "bolt the LNF turbo bits to the LE5" theory
I'm not sure. Maybe I'm wrong and I shouldn't be repeating that. I just recall asking that somewhere in a thread about ecotec swaps. Everyone kept talking about LE5, and I asked "why not LSJ?" because it seemed like a no brainer. I was told fitment issues. Wouldn't surprise me if the supercharger/intercooler combo caused some interference on that side of the head.
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