Kei Cars Legal for Road Use in US?

81cpcamaro said:

In reply to rogue_ryder :

The difference is those cars you mentioned were actually sold here and met the required Federal safety standards at that time. The Kei cars weren't sold here so they were never tested on safety standards.

If they are over 25 years old, the Federal Govt says they are exempt, and therefore legal. But you can't apply to the Feds for a license plate, so you've got to go to the state. And more and more states are falling under the "best practices suggestions" of a group that seems to made up of ex-insurance execs, busybodies, and buzzkills who feel the need to E36 M3 on someone else's fun by recommending states not register JDM vehicles, especially kei cars. More than that, this same group recommends repeatedly denying registration, even if it isn't legal, while pursuing ways to eventually make it legal.

My issue with it is that it isn't and hasn't ever been the job of individual states to regulate crash safety. Now some states are starting to do so de facto, even though there is nothing illegal about owning and registering a legally-imported over-25-year-old JDM vehicle or kei car.

The BS argument I've heard is that if I can title and register my legally-imported kei car, and then later decide to sell it, someone poor unknowing person would buy the tiniest RHD car (a model that they likely haven't seen before) with a kph cluster, labels in Japanese, potentially difficult to insure, and way smaller than the smallest normal cars on the road, under the assumption that because the state plated it, the car is a normal everyday federalized vehicle and therefore safe, and then when they get flattened by a brodozer, they or their family will sue the state for negligence and win because they provided a plate to the previous owner...so the state had better just deny the registration from the get-go.   

GeddesB said:

ddavidv said:

We have a few running around here in PA. I've often wondered how they got them titled. Farmers can get a road use 'exemption' sticker that doesn't require it to be licensed, but that doesn't explain some of the other ones I've seen.

Also have to question how they are getting insured as those VINs sure ain't showing up in the usual databases.

I titled and registered one in PA.  What do you need to know?

 

I have a Subaru Sambar sitting in Japan waiting for a spot on a vessel, and will be registering in PA as an antique. Do I need to trailer the truck to the DMV in Harrisburg in order to get it titled, or can the truck stay at home and I just take the documentation?

You will probably need to have a VIN inspection.  Depending on your location it could be at your home or a specific location that you will need to trailer to. 

In reply to lownslow :

Ah okay sounds good to me. I guess I should call the DMV beforehand when it gets here and find out if I should rent a trailer or not. Of course getting in contact with them will be an adventure of its own.

ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) said:

they or their family will sue the state for negligence and win because they provided a plate to the previous owner...

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can sue states like that.  "Sovereign immunity" or something to that effect.

Considering most counties in Georgia don't even have emissions requirement, this is a very strange look for the state.

In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :

The EPA 25 year rule does allow them to be imported, but it doesn't guarantee it can be registered for street use. That is up to the states, so some states do, others don't.  Georgia lets you have them as off road and farm vehicles, but not for street use. 

93gsxturbo said:

Considering a side-by-side is just as safe (or safer) as some of the street legal cars from a bygone era (VW Bugs, CJ5s and CJ7s, little British cars), as long as they have lights and other safety items I don't really see a concern with side-by-sides or other ORVs on the roads.  

How dare you? My 50 Willys with 3" lift, 33" tires, and only lap belts is totally safe. (That's how I bought it but it will eventually be put back to stock).  For example here it is next to my buddy's Kubota SxS.  The Kubota is longer than the CJ. 
 

MOTORCYCLES. 
 

as long as motorcycles are legal for registration, kei cars should be too.  Id rather have a accident in a little Kei truck than a motorcycle. 

I just went to harrisburg with my pajero mini which i bought from a dealership. They are cracking down hard on Kei vehicles, to the extent that they refused to even transfer the title into my name. They refused antique registration, and they told me to call the reconditioned department to ask what to do with a vehicle that is not road legal, and can only be exported, or destroyed. 

Buyer beware. I am also currently awaiting another Kei vehicle from Japan to arrive in January, which I am just going to sell with import papers to somebody out of state. 

If you apply for a title on any KEI vehicle in PA from now on, they are researching all vins to check if they are liated as Kei's and if they are, your body type will come back saying "ORV" for off road vehicle, never to be changed, or allowed to be registered again in any state. 

If you don't want to get screwed, find a relative in another state who can get the car titled for you. 

PAFuctMe said:

I just went to harrisburg with my pajero mini which i bought from a dealership. They are cracking down hard on Kei vehicles, to the extent that they refused to even transfer the title into my name. They refused antique registration, and they told me to call the reconditioned department to ask what to do with a vehicle that is not road legal, and can only be exported, or destroyed. 

Buyer beware. I am also currently awaiting another Kei vehicle from Japan to arrive in January, which I am just going to sell with import papers to somebody out of state. 

If you apply for a title on any KEI vehicle in PA from now on, they are researching all vins to check if they are liated as Kei's and if they are, your body type will come back saying "ORV" for off road vehicle, never to be changed, or allowed to be registered again in any state. 

If you don't want to get screwed, find a relative in another state who can get the car titled for you. 

Damn, that is horrible. I guess this is specifically for kei cars right? I wonder what will happen to other imports.

Man that sucks on the Pajero in PA.  That looks like a cool vehicle.  

I am hopeful that my imported in the 60s and sold new Subaru 360 Van doesn't get caught up in all this.  It is currently titled and registered in IL as what if is.  But it's been a "US" car since new.  

I've often thought of buying a AZ1 but this has me concerned for getting it titled in IL.  Currently IL won't register Kei trucks but they have been letting Kei Passenger vehicles register.  I'm not sure what the actual law is and it seems to be DMV branch dependent.  

Specifically Kei cars yes, somehow some importers are getting them through as station wagons, but now that harrisburg is specifically aware of the pajero mini it's going to become difficult or impossible to title or register them. they stated "we are going to start revoking registrations, and even titles that slipped through." 

93gsxturbo said:

Steve_Jones said:

93gsxturbo said:

Take for example this vehicle.

https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR-SALE:Genright-Ultra-4-4400-195011

Don't states have to respect license plate reciprocity?  I get it for things like the infamous MotoRex cars that were here illegally, but this vehicle was (assumingly) road-legal-enough in Arizona to get a title.  

If I am driving it through Wisconsin with Arizona plates, I may get stopped, but other than that is there much Officer Squarenuts can do about it?

 

It would still have to meet some regulations. Lights, turn signals, etc. If I have a MD plated car and drive into VA with no headlights, they can stop me and not let me continue. 

Well yeah - i am sure it needs lights, mirrors, maybe a windscreen, and a horn.  But really what can the local constable do to you if you have an out of state plated vehicle and it complies with the state laws from where its registered?

Write you a ticket for not having headlights, a windscreen, etc. It's no different than if a resident of the state with a car registered in that state had violated those laws.

The only thing they can't cite you for is driving an unregistered car on the highway. Because it IS registered, just not in their state, and they don't have jurisdiction over registration.

California doesn't require emissions equipment on cars that are registered elsewhere and transit through the state. But the laws are deliberately written that way. There's nothing stopping California from passing a law that requires emissions checks in cars crossing into the state, they just don't because it would be a nightmare to enforce and likely very destructive to their economy. 

Don't underestimate the power of states rights. Plenty of people serving long prison terms because they committed an act that isn't even illegal a few hundred miles away. Just because a car is registered and insured doesn't mean you can't be subject to significant penalties when you drive it somewhere it doesn't pass muster.

One of the main reasons I left Pennsylvania to begin with is that it has terrible, antiquated laws and a legal system that makes it almost impossible to defend oneself. I remember getting my first speeding ticket ever, when I was 17. I had visited Ohio to buy my first car: an FC RX7. I was just giving it a little workout. Ohio patrol managed to tag me at 94 in a 65 and the officer really wanted to make me appear to have the judge be mean to me or whatever. Dispatch laughed at him and told him that I could have been driving 150, there's no way to force an out of state driver to attend court simply for speeding. "That's it." I remember thinking. "I'm moving to Ohio".

I was there in less than a year. Zero regrets. 

This is all so depressing as someone who really wants a Kei truck to replace my yard service golf cart when the time comes. I always dreamed of having a yard cart that I could just take to Lowe's when I needed to pick up dirt or whatever. 

Even here in Florida, which is basically the wild west, they're already technically illegal on 90% of the roads in the state. It's just not a law that gets enforced with any regularity. 

PAFuctMe said:

Specifically Kei cars yes, somehow some importers are getting them through as station wagons, but now that harrisburg is specifically aware of the pajero mini it's going to become difficult or impossible to title or register them. they stated "we are going to start revoking registrations, and even titles that slipped through." 

I wonder it's going to play out with things like, say a Pajero Jr, which is not technically a kei car. Or a Nissan Pao, which is almost kei sized, but not quite.  

In reply to fatallightning :

I worry that once the toothpaste is out of the tube on states deciding to ban registration of any type of car not originally sold here but legal federally for import it won't stop at kei class.  

There is obviously some interested party pushing for this.  There is nothing inherently dangerous or wrong with Kei trucks.   I don't hear concerned citizens clamoring to ban these menacing tiny white trucks from their streets.  There is no inherent reason for a state to ban them particularly states with on road ATV and SXS use ordinances.   I suspect that there is some push from people who think every Kei truck imported is a sale of a SXS or Full Size truck that isn't made and that's the real issue.  

nocones said:

In reply to fatallightning :

I worry that once the toothpaste is out of the tube on states deciding to ban registration of any type of car not originally sold here but legal federally for import it won't stop at kei class.  

There is obviously some interested party pushing for this.  There is nothing inherently dangerous or wrong with Kei trucks.   I don't hear concerned citizens clamoring to ban these menacing tiny white trucks from their streets.  There is no inherent reason for a state to ban them particularly states with on road ATV and SXS use ordinances.   I suspect that there is some push from people who think every Kei truck imported is a sale of a SXS or Full Size truck that isn't made and that's the real issue.  

 

I think it's also a lawsuit waiting to happen when someone gets injured or killed, or does some injuring or killing, while operating a vehicle on US roads that was never originally federally approved to operate on US roads.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

Like a kit car, or a car modified in any fashion?

I understand the rationale, but it is also a slippery slope.  Mazda did not engineer the brake and chassis systems of a Miata for a turbocharged engine or a V8.  Heck, Volvo did not engineer the chassis dynamics of my S60 to cope with sticky UHP tires.  (They certainly did not engineer the wheel bearings for them  )

VA had a proposed law that was targeted at mini-trucks/Kei cars, but it didn't pass. Anecdotally, sounds like having that proposed legislation created a memo that got circulated around DMV, and subsequently some DMV's wouldn't register otherwise legally imported Kei cars, but based on the erroneous assumption that the law passed (it was withdrawn).

I really want to find a cheap 4wd Kei Truck or Van running with lots of body damage so it's cheap to put the chassis and engine under my 360 Van

JG Pasterjak said:

I think it's also a lawsuit waiting to happen when someone gets injured or killed, or does some injuring or killing, while operating a vehicle on US roads that was never originally federally approved to operate on US roads.

A lawsuit against whom?  AFAIK you can't sue a state for something like that.

EVERY death or injury is a lawsuit waiting to happen. 

Looks like I'll troll the east coast for all of the Kei that can't be registered. They are very popular here as farm tools and have no issues getting registered. 

I don't know if linking stuff is allowed around here, but there is a GoFundMe in Georgia getting ready to legally fight the kei car ban.

Organizers: TATSU KAZUYA, Trinity Miller
Law Firm: Lefkoff Law
Additional Assistance: JORA Imports

Not sure if anyone else here is interested, but I'm definitely following. This can hopefully set precedent all over the USA eventually