rob_lewis said: ...the price isn't bad to get started, but you may find very little support at the track. Having a more "common" chassis is easier to beg/borrow/buy parts when things break.-Rob
That was my one concern when googling the brand as well. Still a contender at the price point though.
chaparral said:In reply to rob_lewis :
It looks roadworthy and like an asphalt sprint kart. They're made in Georgia so parts are 2 days from the factory by UPS. http://www.razorchassis.com/about-us/
No idea if they're any good, mechanical design looks as bad as a Margay's, but TonyKarts are way down there too and they're fast.
Curious what you mean by "as bad as Margay's"? Are TonyKarts considered poor quality "way down there"?
In reply to xflowgolf (Forum Supporter) :
Most Euro karts chassis are made at the same plants, however they use different components such as Birel uses Freeline and Tonykart uses OTK. Some of the lesser known karts use Freeline and OTK parts and I would put Birel, Tonykart, and CRG as the top of quality. Euro karts are typically stiffer as they are designed for higher horsepower but have adapted and win in 4 cycle competition. Margay are competitive and are basically a euro chassis design using metric components, they do however use MCP which is a popular American chassis brake system, and is much cheaper then the Euro's. Margay Ignite has it's own series they run, in Lo206 nationally. I have owned several Margay's and think they are a quality chassis. I have ran against Razor chassis, they remind me of Coyotes which are American chassis, they typically run Metric Axles and all the other components are Standard/American. They are designed for 4cycle and run loose. If someone has a Coyote you could likely put those parts on the Razor. The best American kart is Eagle for 4 cycle, they are made by Cometkartsales, I owned one and sold it and regret it. Now I have Topkart (selling) and CRG kart now. They are both 2 cycle as I am considering running at the car tracks which are classed. 2cycle is making another push with the Ka100 and the VLR in a couple years I can see some of the Lo206 folks moving up. The Razor kart has the old seal which is still legal but who knows how long, the orange seal is the newest.
I haven't seen a front set up like the Razor before. It looks like you can adjust the KPI/Camber with that top heim joint.
EDIT. Further explanation. Most of the karts I've seen have an eccentric of some kind (look at early pics in this thread of my Grandsons kart). This looks very heavy duty, I wonder if it's because these are more common for circle track than road racing. Could it be to help the high constant lateral load, and to make adjustments easier for a staggered set up at the track? These are questions, not statements. I'm as much, if not more of, a beginner as anyone else here and know next to nothing.
As an update on my Grandson, I took him out the last two weekends in April, and the other G.Pa took him out in May, planning on getting out there again soon together. Slow steady progress in confidence, driving, lines etc. Very organic, learning by doing and watching, with us providing minimal, bit hopefully clear instruction out of the kart. Still on track to hopefully enter a couple of races at the end of the season. Slowly, slowly, fun above everything.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Similar but different with a coyote. Most American karts Offset included have something like this.
I don't know American offset racing much, but imagine those front end adjustments developed from it and was applied to sprint karts. Does it make it easier to setup? Sure. But, I kinda wonder if that adjustment makes any real difference. Only because I've never seen one at the bigger races. It's all OTK, Birel, CRG, etc.
I would guess, however, if there was a hot shoe driver winning on one for a team that sold and supported them at the big races, you'd see more adoption. Karters are like lemmings and will gravitate to whatever chassis the front runners are using. Which kinda makes sense. If there's a chassis up front, it's probably quick for the conditions and chances are with the sheer number of drivers on the chassis, there's tons of data/tuners that know how to set them up correctly.
-Rob
At $1400, the price isn't bad to get started, but you may find very little support at the track. Having a more "common" chassis is easier to beg/borrow/buy parts when things break.-Rob
I second this. Having track support (access to parts and setup info) is probably one of the most important aspects of choosing a kart chassis.
Not to hijack this thread, but we ended up picking up a 2020 Margay Ignite K3, and getting the LO206 motor sorted next week. Now we have to track down all the safety gear and should be ready to turn some laps soon.
to make it relevant to this thread I brought my dad along.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Do kids on karts use motorcycle helmets or auto racing helmets?
While this might seem like a question best asked of a helmet manufacturer, I emailed Bell a few weeks ago and never got an answer, so now I'm asking the experts instead.
Woody (Forum Supportum) said:In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Do kids on karts use motorcycle helmets or auto racing helmets?
While this might seem like a question best asked of a helmet manufacturer, I emailed Bell a few weeks ago and never got an answer, so now I'm asking the experts instead.
Hope it's ok for me to chime in even though it was directed at Adrian...
Every track or event I've seen requires a full face Snell rated helmet. That could mean auto, motorcycle or karting. My kid always used a motorcycle helmet because the eyeport was larger and we could easily get shields at the local shop. Plus, when buying his first, he was able try on multiple brands for the best fit.
-Rob
I wish that my Father or a Grandfather or somebody would have supported me in this when I was a kid. Nobody in my family had the time. Dad was always too busy working or at home drinking. Sis was pregnant at age 14. My home situation was not good. I remember acquiring an old lawn mower and a bunch of stray parts that could have been made into some kind of kart. I had no idea how to put it together and no help in building it. Eventually mom put it all in the trash and with it my dreams of ever racing a kart.
Any Dad or Grandfather who takes a kid karting is a Hero in my book.
Wow, So damn, it looks like I have ignored this thread for a year and missed some questions. Time for an update.
I came to talk about my grandson’s first race weekend. It wasn’t easy or drama free.
But first I need to bring people up to speed over the last year or so. I think I mentioned before, karting isn’t his main sport or passion. His main love is football (ugh) and also sometimes does basketball, equestrian etc. But karting has been a fun side thing, and since both his grandads are car geeks, it’s a great way to spend time together. Also, while my grandson is now 8, he has a 15 (nearly 16) year old uncle with the other grandpa, who he hero worships. Over the years the uncle started in quarter midgets, then moved to karts. But now he’s on the verge of getting his license, he has a New Edge SN95 with a cage, good suspension, and mild engine work as his first car. Right now, he’s itching to get into track days, and I think karting may be done for him at the end of this year.
So, back to my grandson and his karting. Over the last 18 months between us we’ve taken him to at least eight test days, maybe a couple more. Last month we got out for the first time this year, and everything seemed to have come together. He was soon into the rhythm and was faster on the more twisty version of the track they ran that day, then he had been on the full faster track last year. He was holding nice speed and felt good. We talked with him, and he said he’d try racing. Yeah.
To go racing we needed to do a bit of work. First we needed new tires, previously he’d been practicing on unknown age (3-4 years), wrong brand tires that came on the kart when we bought it. We also needed to add ballast to get him to the right weight. I think we added about 35 lb.’s (on the scales at the event he was 4lbs. low, but no one minded, we were totally open about it). Now, thinking about it with the benefit of hindsight, we should absolutely have given him another test before a race weekend with what will obviously be a very different kart. We didn’t, our bad.
The format at ELKT is two practice sessions in the morning. Two heats with random grid, reversed between each race to determine the grid for the final, then the final. Total of five sessions on track. So, 1st practice, and we notice he’s got corner exit over steer. We’re not sure if it’s handling, or him lifting on exit. Rob (other grandpa) and I talk with people, and to reduce the corner exist oversteer we were told to narrow the rear tr4ack, which is what we did by 1” per side. Note. This seemed wrong to me, as I would have thought that less track would reduce grip, but what did I know? Well, it was the exact opposite of what we should have done. He goes out for the second practice and ends up coming in early as it’s super twitchy and he spins many times. We talk to more people and determine, contrary to what we had been told, that we should be increasing the rear track, also they suggested we decrease front track. Karts are all about cross jacking and things, lots of caster and camber with high offset in the front, so as you turn the wheel there is a lot of vertical travel, which creates twist in the chassis, which changes cross weights which, which…….. It’s not like cars!
So, two session down. The poor kid has not had a good practice and is nervous about racing, and says he doesn’t want to race that day. No problem, he wasn’t going to be in the correct race for his class anyway, so we told him he and a couple of other new kids would start in a different race from his class, at the back, as a test session. It was a race but telling him that it wasn’t was all the confidence he needed. His class has 16-18 kids, 8 to 13 years old, and some have been doing this for years and are very fast and very competitive. Luckily, there is another junior class called ‘Junior swift’ for two stroke engines.
Quick aside. The class we run in uses the very, popular Briggs and Stratton ‘Animal 206’. This is a custom built, sealed, 204CC, 9hp/10lb/ft, 6,100rpm engine. New inc carb they retail for $600. They then have different slides to reduce power for the various younger classes. Adults get the full unbridled 9hp!! Not sure exactly what power our kart has, but it has a ‘green’ slide in there per the regs. These 2 stroke ‘Swift’ engines are 50cc, have (in unrestricted form) 10hp and rev to 14,000rpm etc. But while they are faster, they cost $3,500 new and need $2,000 rebuilds every year, Vs the 206 Animal that seems to last many years with nothing but oil changes. Some people like spending big bucks! But three in a class vs 16-18 shows the power of economics.
Anyway, back on track. The three ‘Mini Swift karts’ have their race, and they add three younger, new kids like at the back of their race. As I said, to calm his nerves, we told him it’s not really racing. Just a practice session in a race for him and the others. The good news is because the Mini Swift race was two races after his group, he got to watch them race. This was great as he could see procedures and things. So anyway, he goes out, he’s running around right next to another 8-year-old, who’s a girl who’s done two prior actual race weekends. He’s close to her and everything is going well. Then at the hairpin, she does a ½ spin. Now a kart sideways stops instantly as it’s got mile wide track and now hot wide slicks. He can’t do anything and hits her side on near the front. She’s out instantly with a mangled bumper and a bit shaken up. He appears OK but beached on a curb. I was out assisting the flaggers as an extra hand for the kids’ races. One guy checked the girl and got her off track, while I got her and the kart off track. I then unbeached our grandson and got him going. As he set off everything appeared OK, but then I heard scrapping, I figured it was his bumper, let him go then turned my attention to getting the girls kart way off track. He had the sense to pit. Once the race had finished and got back to the pit, I discovered the scraping sound was his chassis was bent like an overloaded bridge, and the middle of the chassis was dragging on the ground. At first, we thought we were done, but the old hands jumped in and told us what to do to get back on track. We put a big piece of wood across the middle of the bend in the chassis. Two big guys stood on the rear, and one bounced up and down on the nose until it was ‘good enough’. We will strip the kart down this week and take it in to be professionally straightened.
Two more races to go!! Next race things are calmer. The third kid soon passes both our grandson and the girl, then the two of them run around close to each other and he was to catch her. After a few laps he’s 1-2 kart lengths behind. As soon as he was that close, he started trying to take the inside line to get past her. Too soon, he was too far back, then would lose time being too tight in the corners and would fall back for half a lap. But hey, things were progressing. That race came to an end with at least a reasonably handling kart, and his confidence returning.
By now TBH he was probably done for the day, but we (I’m ambivalent about having done this) said he needed to finish the day as we’d put in a lot of time and effort getting him here. He did, and I think enjoyed it. We did make one more change to the kart, we further narrowed the front track. Things went much better. He got ahead of the girl at the start and kept her behind for the first two thirds of the race. Then across the start/finish they showed him the blue flag as she was close. He took the flag way too seriously and lifted right off. She sped past and was instantly 6-8 kart lengths ahead. After that he closed in and followed her to the end.
Honestly, he did outstandingly considering the adversity. That was a lot for a young kid to take on in one day. Well done to him.
So, this week we’ll strip down the kart, remove the wheels, tires, engine, chain, sprocket, seat and weight, fuel system, clean it up and take it to PKT in Wixom, a local kart supply, retailer, workshop, prep shop etc. They are the go to people around here. They will get it properly straight to original specs.
Not sure where we’re going from here. We’ll see if he wants to race again, it wasn’t the greatest experience. Maybe he wants to go back to test sessions again or not, we will see. It wouldn’t be surprising if he doesn’t want to carry on next year, and that’s 100% fine. We don’t want to push him to do anything he doesn’t want to do.
Very cool he got a chance to try it out and have some fun with the grandads..................win win.
Damn karts are easy compared to cars. 50 mins from complete sitting on the stand to this. Two people in an organized shop admitidly, but even after tidy up and putting it in my car to take it to get straightened we were right at an hour.
Man this is an awesome thread, and I plan to read the one you linked on the first page as well.
I'm a dad of two boys ages 5 & 7, and a 10 year old girl. I have an endurance race car that I mostly build by myself, with occasional help from my wife. We saw quarter midgets at the local NASCAR race, and of course my boys said they want to do it. IMO going around corners both directions is cooler, so I've been looking into kid karts. Can these legitimately be used by two different kids of different sizes?
I'm in Portland Oregon area. We have two good local kart tracks, but I'm getting the feeling that kid karts are unpopular or non existent here. If there's no racing, I'd probably have to reconsider... Maybe build one together with no plans to race.
One thing I'm really struggling with... I had an unstoppable desire to have a dirtbike as a kid. Saved my money for actual years, finally bought a basket case that my dad graciously let me buy despite us living in the city with no truck. We rebuilt the engine together, and then he took the seats out of the family van and we put it on a tarp, and took it to some logging roads. The point is, I made it happen with my own money, extreme patience and desire, and my dad's willingness to help and experience with mechanics. I think it was an amazing experience, and quality time with my dad that I'll never forget. It also kicked off a lifelong passion for motorsports. But I did somewhat resent kids who's parents bought them dirtbikes. So I'm struggling a bit with spending the kind of money I spend on my own racing for my kids. I'll have to see some desire and willingness to make sacrifices before pulling the trigger...
Anyways, would love your comments, but I'll be following your thread either way!
I think you may be forgetting the three indoor tracks in the portland area.
No financial commitment and league racing.
bentwrench said:I think you may be forgetting the three indoor tracks in the portland area.
No financial commitment and league racing.
I believe my boys, at least one of them, aren't old enough to race. Think the age limit is 8. I'll have to check again.
Would also reduce the opportunity to teach the kids about mechanics...
In reply to MaxC :
Kid class is 5-7 years old. When my grandson was 7 we tried to put him in one, but he was physically to big to fit, hence we went straight to a Junior kart and did test days before going racing.
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