I am on the cusp of full conversion:
Van: auto
Daily: auto
Truck: auto
Race car: 5sp --> dsg this winter
No reason to shift myself in the drivers/workhorses and when a computer can shift faster than I can but I can still control it manually if necessary, it's a win-win. The future is now, or a few years ago. If I had a "just fun" car I may get another manual.
My truck (2016 Ram 1500) has the pretty-dang-good ZF 8-speed automatic and it's entirely fine. I am not one of those manual elitists who thinks towing and doing other truck stuff is made better by rowing your own.
My current toy is a '98 Volvo S70 with a manual and it's fun enough for a FWD cable-shifted mom-car with a laggy turbo bolted to it. That's being sold in a few weeks and if I replace it, whatever else I get will have a stick as I'm looking for a roadster or small coupe of some sort.
I am not averse to shifting myself, even in DC traffic. It's all muscle memory and it's not like... hard. But I do think automatics suit some cars better than manuals and instead of dragging them, we should embrace them for what they are.
My racecar is an E36 M3 and I wouldn't say I enjoy shifting it myself. If there was a cost-effective way to bolt a BMW DCT to the S52, I'd consider it. It would be the faster option and we all want to go faster.
Wife's IS-F is automatic, that was the car that converted me. Prior to that I refused to own anything built after MY2000. The IS-F smoked my turbo miata in a straight line, carried 4 passengers comfortably, had a/c and navigation, and still returned 23mpg. At that point I had to admit "maybe these new automatics aren't so bad."
I've not... yet, but that's mainly because my Subaru is old and a manual, and have no plans to sell it. Ever.
The modern automatics aren't bad, dual clutches are pretty darn good. CVTs can still go jump in a lake.
I got a good deal on a 1994 Z28 automatic. I was thinking of making it a Challenge car, but after I drove it a bit more, there is no way I want to keep putting effort into a car with a 1994 4L60E in it. It's awful.
Jerry said:I figured I was one knee injury away from owning 3 cars and not being able to drive.
Doing a decent amount of mountain biking I figured I was one accident away from not being able to drive a manual which is why I bought an automatic Element.
But otherwise I am manual transmission all the way.
Currently all the cars I have are automatics - sold a stick shift Ford Ranger a couple months ago. Yes, it would be nice to have a manual, but sometimes other factors end up tipping the balance - particularly since mid to full sized family cars are a tricky category to find in stick shift. How the fleet currently stacks up:
1966 Dodge Dart. Sure, converting it to a manual might be nice... but could cost a bit of money better spent elsewhere. I wouldn't say no to a screaming deal on an A-833 with a slant six bellhousing, but with a turbo build, there's also an advantage of being able to keep my foot flat to the floor for a whole run. (Although I could also just set up the MS3 for no lift shifting...)
2005 Honda Accord. My wife's car. She can drive a manual, but doesn't like to do so in traffic. Personally, I think that K24 would be a lot happier to have a manual behind it.
2013 VW Passat. I had test driven the same TDI driveline with a manual in a Jetta. The DSG isn't bad, and a TDI isn't exactly rev happy, so it doesn't give up a lot. Still, if I'd found one with a stick at the same price in the same condition, I'd have taken it.
I have one manual, one auto that will soon be converted to manual, and one sequential (sounds exotic, but it's a motorcycle) The only project in the bunch that will remain an auto is a 66 Bonneville. It will be a big cushy luxo-cruiser with a Duramax, so it will probably get a 4L80E.
I would say it depends on the automatic, but I ran transmission repair shops for many years. As many as 7 transmissions a day for about 7 years. We probably did 10,000 transmissions in my tenure at 13 shops. How many of them were manuals you ask? Exactly 2. That's not to say that manuals don't fail, but they are such simple critters. Select a ratio, and you have a direct steel-to-steel transfer of power. No stacks of paper clutches, no close-tolerance hydraulic pumps, no complex hydraulic pathways, springs, check balls, internal wiring, learning ECMs... just hardened steel.
Even the simplest of automatics without all that extra junk, like a TH350, relies on pretty complex stuff going on inside there, and transfers power through cardboard being pressed together with oil pressure.
If I do a google search for "transmission shops near me" I come up with about a hundred. How many of them rebuild manual transmissions? Zero. If you ask them who does manuals, they scratch their head and can't think of a single one. I had a T56 that needed a synchro replaced. I had to drive 2.5 hours to find a guy, and he wasn't even a transmission repair shop, just a guy who had self-taught all the insides of a T56.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
man, youre making me want a manual now. the only thing i like as much as speed is reliability/saving money
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:I find it comical when dudes refuse to drive automatics out of some machismo complex.
THIS.
I've mostly always owned at least one manual car in the fleet. One exception was the second half of the '90s when all 3 cars were automatic... though I did buy a used Neon ACR to go with our daily Neon Sport ATX, because we wanted to take the minivan out of DD service and I missed driving a manual.
My DD was a manual from 1999 to 2017. First the ACR, then in 2006 my E46, then when we bought my wife's Volvo in 2017 it just made more sense to sell the BMW and for me to take her old automatic TSX, which was newer and had half the mileage. Along the way I bought the Manic Miata for a toy and sold the Powerglide Le Mans. When I bought the Longbeast there was no manual option, but I still have the Miata.
I enjoy driving a manual, even daily and through winter (not sure why that would be a problem), but I don't feel like I'm missing something in an automatic commuter.
Honestly if I decide I'm too old for the Manic Miata and decide to replace it with a Boxster, I'd strongly consider a PDK so DW could drive it. I taught her how to drive a stick long ago but she really doesn't see any need and she is nervous about hills, etc. so I also don't feel any need to make her.
Whats the lifespan of a modern automatic? Is it still reasonable to be scared of one totaling a car when it is near 200k miles?
I love manuals. I won't toss a car out of the garage if it has an auto. As everyone else has said the new ones are pretty berkeleying amazing pieces of engineering and programming. However, if it's possible, I'll manual swap any auto I get my hands on. Even my c50 is manual. And that thing is fun as hell to drive!
ProDarwin said:Whats the lifespan of a modern automatic? Is it still reasonable to be scared of one totaling a car when it is near 200k miles?
Family Accords/TSX are hitting 250-300K before having downshift and slight trans issues. The 8 speed TLX having TONS of issues
Dads Tacoma has over 700k miles, original motor/AT trans. Our farm Land Cruiser has 650k miles, all original AT trans/motor.
In reply to ProDarwin :
The transmission shop I deal with says he's making bank on the modern 6-10 speed.
After living with POrsches PDK and Audi's DSG in my dailies. I will never go back to a manual. That is a hard thing for me to say but they are faster, make the car livable in SoCal traffic and just better.
Now I need to go throw up.
ProDarwin said:Whats the lifespan of a modern automatic? Is it still reasonable to be scared of one totaling a car when it is near 200k miles?
likely similar to manuals as long as you service them properly which i assume most people wont.
I only like bad autos. Fewer gears, harder shifts, broken TV cables. My friend had a TH400 in his Monte Carlo that didn't have second gear. It would slam from 1st to 3rd. Made the car fun to drive.
MrChaos said:ProDarwin said:Whats the lifespan of a modern automatic? Is it still reasonable to be scared of one totaling a car when it is near 200k miles?
likely similar to manuals as long as you service them properly which i assume most people wont.
You're not wrong. Though the manufacturers are on to your plan. Many modern autos are completely sealed and use "lifetime" lubricant. Even of the ones that do recommend service, most don't even have dip sticks anymore. Toyota made a big deal about the million mile tundra but I'd be willing to wager that other than the good press, they'd have much rather sold 5-7 replacement tundras.
I have one automatic and two manuals. Modern automatics are very good, and really, these days, I prefer them in day to day driving. I don't fear the auto, it's time is coming.
barefootskater said:You're not wrong. Though the manufacturers are on to your plan. Many modern autos are completely sealed and use "lifetime" lubricant. Even of the ones that do recommend service, most don't even have dip sticks anymore. Toyota made a big deal about the million mile tundra but I'd be willing to wager that other than the good press, they'd have much rather sold 5-7 replacement tundras.
Yup my 05 LS430 had the "sealed trans and liftetime" lube per Toyota/Lexus. I always change them every 30K.
I prefer manuals most days but some autos are good enough that I don't mind, especially if I can choose my gear. My dads Mazda 6 has a great 6 speed auto, it suits the car well, is responsive and commutes very nicely.
The Subaru (cvt) is a fantastic commuter. I brought it in to work today over the manual car just because it's nice to not have to think about it sometimes.
Also I spent about an hour yesterday in the twisties in the Boxster so I feel better lol
Right tool for the job.
In reply to Mike (Forum Supporter) :
I wonder how many pro manual drivers have driven as much As I have. In My working years 60,000- 80,000 miles a year was common. My best guess is somewhere around 3 milllion miles I live in a major metro area and while I traveled through a lot of rural areas over my life much of it has been urban fighting traffic.
For reference I bought my first car at age 14 (MGTD) and still have it. Yes they only come with a clutch pedal and shift lever.
barefootskater said:You're not wrong. Though the manufacturers are on to your plan. Many modern autos are completely sealed and use "lifetime" lubricant. Even of the ones that do recommend service, most don't even have dip sticks anymore. Toyota made a big deal about the million mile tundra but I'd be willing to wager that other than the good press, they'd have much rather sold 5-7 replacement tundras.
"Lifetime" lubricant claims have been around since at least the 1960s, although presumably the designers had a shorter expectation for what the lifetime would have been back then.
My experience with automatics has mostly been pre-2000, which is to say, not the best. Usually my concerns about reliability trump my happiness with their functionality, because a failed transmission pretty much ruins your day and possibly trip/race weekend/etc.
It seems like I'm usually okay with automatics when they are bolted to engines with a lot of torque. More than 6 speeds and they seem to hunt around; unless I'm on flat highway, I usually lock out the top gear or two if there is a way to do so and the experience improves dramatically without seeming to impact mileage much. Modern automatics that keep the torque converter locked almost all the time (or a dual clutch) also do pretty well in my book.
All the good autos are pretty much out of my price range though, so I will keep rowing my own except for truck stuff.
Of my current fleet of six cars, all are manual shift but one and that one (72 Jensen Interceptor) was never built with a manual option.
In fact one of them was never built with anything but a manual trans - couldn't drive a stick, go buy something else! That was from BMW, who decided that any enthusiast wanting to buy a Z4M would necessarily want a manual trans and if they didn't they could just buy a different model that came with an auto (or go away and buy something else).
All my old British stuff only had manuals, but by the time you get to the modern era (my old 88 Fiero and my current Solstice coupe) the manuals were in the minority and more people bought autos.
Part of that has to be due to traffic - a long slow stop and start journey is just no fun in a manual shift car, and I willingly opt to use my wife's Mazda (which ironically has an auto with a tap shift mode so you can emulate a manual, although the wife will never use that option).
It is sad to see the manuals going away, but I guess I understand why. One bonus for us older car owners is an apparent shortage of young car thieves that are able to drive/steal a manual trans car!
I only buy a manual if it's actually the better gearbox. Since I have a lot of pre-2000 Hondas, that means I buy the manual version of the car.
But I have zero issue with a good automatic gearbox (see Porsche, new Corvette, etc). It's not the actual act of shifting the gears that I think is engaging during driving, it's the mental part of selecting the gear. You can do that well on new automatics, so it doesn't detract from the driving experience for me. Not to mention there's a lot more to the driving experience than selecting the gear, anyways.
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