Lap Timers for Beginners and DIYers, OBD1

So Im planning to go back to the ROVAL on June 26th, hopefully getting a friend to do his first track day too!

While I am not focused on laptimes, I do think it'd be neat to know. Yes, I know it's not a race, there's no trophies or sponsorship deals being created on this, I just want to know and start keeping track of. I'd like to do multiple this summer, so it'd be neat to see if I am improving at all, especially after making some changes (like I dont know if my downpipe will be installed by then or not, that drops about 20lbs of weight and adds HP, from my previous experience with these cars)

The car is a MR2 Turbo, 1991, with a gen3 JDM swap.

It's OBD-1, so some options just dont plug in like newer CAN-BUS stuff.

So what is someone, like me, to do to get an understanding of my lap times?

Im not, yet, ready for a standalone ECU, so that option is out.

Easy way is a phone or tablet. Get Harry's lap timer in app store. Mount properly, and you're off.

Agreed - you really only need an OBD reader if you want to datalog certain engine parameters. For getting an idea of how you drive and how it's improving, a phone and maybe an external GPS should be more than sufficient.

I'll second Harry's lap timer. I bought an external GPS for it, but had some random trouble with it. Never noticed a difference between the external GPS and the phone GPS (compared to transponder time). Seemed like the external GPS was a waste. Displayed lap times were always very close to transponder time either way.

At the end of the day, you really just want to focus on predictive time anyway (IMO). Even if you blow the first turn, you can still tell if you're faster/slower in later sections, and play around with lines. Although if you're doing your first few days, I wouldn't worry much about it... Just have fun and you'll likely knock whole seconds off day by day!

I have a traqmate data logger that is pretty cool.  Doesn't use obd port but does tell you if you're slower or faster throughout the lap.  I'd let it go if you're interested. 

jfryjfry said:

I have a traqmate data logger that is pretty cool.  Doesn't use obd port but does tell you if you're slower or faster throughout the lap.  I'd let it go if you're interested. 

Yeah Im curious about this

Will look into this Harry App

When youre saying paired with external GPS - like a garmin unit?

Ok, Im looking at the app store and see three Harry's apps

which one should I go for?

So, does it utilize the camera function as well, or just the gps?

Im very interested in utilizing the app, just want more advice from yall before purchase

Again, I know it's a track day and it's about fun...but Im still interested in improving my times

We are also shooting for the 26th

Following the post with interest.

Thanks

We are also shooting for the 26th

Following the post with interest.

Thanks

We are also shooting for the 26th

Following the post with interest.

Thanks

We are also shooting for the 26th

Following the post with interest.

Thanks

In reply to hybridmomentspass :

This is the traqmate system:

jfryjfry said:

In reply to hybridmomentspass :

This is the traqmate system:

 

 

PM me more details, price etc

Message sent!

Yeah you don't really need any OBD inputs to get a TON of info from data. A speed/distance trace that you can lay over another speed/distance trace will give you more info than you'll ever want to deal with inmost cases.

Jeremy's Traqmate is a great place to start. 

hybridmomentspass said:

Ok, Im looking at the app store and see three Harry's apps

which one should I go for?

So, does it utilize the camera function as well, or just the gps?

Im very interested in utilizing the app, just want more advice from yall before purchase

 

Again, I know it's a track day and it's about fun...but Im still interested in improving my times

IIRC if you use at least the Petrolhead edition, you should be able to use the phone's camera. I have the Grand Prix edition and that one controls both internal and external cameras (plus GPS with higher refresh rate, which is mostly a bonus on shorter tracks because it's a bit more precise).

You can upgrade to a bigger, better version so I'd start with the cheapest version that does what you need it to. And a really good phone mount, especially if you want to record video.

spedracer said:

I'll second Harry's lap timer. I bought an external GPS for it, but had some random trouble with it. Never noticed a difference between the external GPS and the phone GPS (compared to transponder time). Seemed like the external GPS was a waste. Displayed lap times were always very close to transponder time either way.

At the end of the day, you really just want to focus on predictive time anyway (IMO). Even if you blow the first turn, you can still tell if you're faster/slower in later sections, and play around with lines. Although if you're doing your first few days, I wouldn't worry much about it... Just have fun and you'll likely knock whole seconds off day by day!

What you get out of an external GPS is a much better speed/distance trace and more accurate track position. Phone GPS will get you overall lap time, but the rest isn't often enough to be super useful. On track 1hz isn't horrible, but if you try it for autocross datalogging, forget it.

The predictive is the best stuff. Its always fun to take a corner in a new way and see estimated lap change by half a second. It makes it possible to learn a lot quicker.

Still I don't know if I'd go external GPS. I think if I'm ready to spend the money on that, I'm ready to get better dedicated system that'll be more useful in the long run.

In reply to theruleslawyer :

I have a Dual XGPS160 for use with Harry's, and I think it's a worthwhile addition and cheaper than going to a more dedicated system. Can't remember if my iPhone was able to use the BT ODB-2 reader and the GPS at the same time, though.

I use Track Addict on my iPhail 12Pro. Last weekend it was consistently within 1 tenth of transponder times. Works well enough at my skill level

BoxheadTim said:

In reply to theruleslawyer :

I have a Dual XGPS160 for use with Harry's, and I think it's a worthwhile addition and cheaper than going to a more dedicated system. Can't remember if my iPhone was able to use the BT ODB-2 reader and the GPS at the same time, though.

Cheaper, sure. There is something to be said for the simplicity and reliability of a package deal. I tried all that early on and getting everything connected and working each event was kind of a PITA. A dedicated one its power and done. Or you even leave it wired to ACC power. Depends on your budget if that is worth it to you though. You certainly can make it work.

In reply to hybridmomentspass :

I ended up with the Petrolhead edition. As mentioned previously, you can upgrade between editions without paying full price. I honestly can't remember why I went with that version, it was years ago.

Using the phone camera never really worked out for me. You need a really stable mount for it to look OK. I also couldn't use the camera function unless it was fairly cold (by AZ standards). The video function would rapidly cause the phone to overheat and shut down.

I ended up putting together a TraqMate system like above for my vintage FF racer recently. It was Peter's go-to system for a few years when it was new, so if you poke around very much you'll find some interesting videos of him doing classroom sessions on how to interpret the data. However, the interface is ancient, and syncing data and video within the software package is poor at best. If you can get past the old software interface, it will do all the typical tracing of a modern system. But it's a huge PITA compared to a modern video / data system where overlaid video is as simple as pulling a card out. I like the system, but can't say I go through the hassle of doing video / data overlays between sessions and that is where they real value lies.

I'd not go down the rabbit hole of a data system for your application. Start with Harry's for a day, then upgrade it with an external 10 Hz GPS. And then if you really want to chase it, start looking at various data systems.

The TraqMate system does allow basic analog inputs with the right IO device. I've got a TPS and a rotary pot tied for steering angle tied into the TraqMate data module.  If you end up purchasing it, and need the software, shoot me a note.

These external GPS mentioned - speciality items or basic garmin units?

In reply to hybridmomentspass :

Specialty-ish items with much higher update frequency than your basic GPS unit or phone - usually 10Hz+. The website for Harry's lap timer should have a list of supported units.

hybridmomentspass:

Please reach out to Racingcomputers @ yahoo regarding June 26 Charlotte event.

Like to compare notes and discuss

Thanks