In my ongoing search for a low cost HPDE car, I've found some of these to be available. The running/drivable ones I've seen have been base models...not the GTs or Si models. Does anyone have experience doing HPDE in them? Would you favor one over the other? I know the CRX had excellent handling, but only the Si version had decent power. Would it be too underpowered for the track? Celica was a "sporty" car, but is it fun to drive? I know the Prelude was a fun car, but never drove one on a track.
The Prelude S only had about 110 hp and the twin carbs are probably not worth the hassle at this point. Plus they all had sunroofs, so head room with a helmet will be minimal.
A couple hundred dollars in parts will bring the CRX to life thanks to high compression and VTAK. The fact that it's small and light eases the downside of not too much power.
As far as the Celica goes I've only driven it once and the driving position was great. It was a GT model so it moved pretty well.
The Preludes are hated for all kinds of reasons. I'm a sucker for a 1st gen crx. Ask an ITC guy if a carb'd 1st gen. is underpowered to the point of not being fun 
I wouldn't worry about it much. Buy what you can afford, go out and have fun. IMHO, you'll learn to be a much better driver in a slower car.
Celica gets my vote. Any 4th/5th/6th gen Celica can be had for cheap, either ST, GT, or GTS trim, and they can all be made to handle well for pretty cheap. They aren't too shabby even stock, for that matter.
And yes, as previously mentioned, the driving position is damn near perfect. My only complaint with them is that the pedals are absolutely not set up for heel/toe.
The best bang for your buck?
86-89 GTS
92-93 GT Coupe
92-93 ST
94-99 Coupe of any kind
I bought my 91 CRX Si for $800
A little rusty but nothing too bad and parts are CHEAP compared to some of my previous rides.
I'd consider finding a 92+ Prelude. H23A (in the Si?) is a decent 160hp non-vtec engine and that generation has plenty of aftermarket support.
The VTECs are a bit tougher to find, but I'll bet you could grab one for a decent price w/ some searching. H22A is an awesome engine. Leave it stock and get a decent suspension setup. Instant track car.
The '88-95 Civic/CRX and '90-01 Integra are serious candidates for "best car ever built".
Look no further. Engines are reliable, with several options between 105 and 180 hp, same goes for the manual boxes with ratios and diffs between mild and wild. They've all got double-wishbone suspension with great geometry; slightly lower and stiffer and you're right in the meat of the camber curve. Every backstreet mechanic can fix them, there's an insane array of aftermarket choices for any replacement part, and they absorb ham-handed driving well.
chaparral wrote: The '88-95 Civic/CRX and '90-01 Integra are serious candidates for "best car ever built". Look no further. Engines are reliable, with several options between 105 and 180 hp,
I think the HF models were somewhere around 65hp or so, weren't they?
Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss the 2nd gen Integra or even 3rd gen non-vtec models. They're pretty inexpensive and still come with a 1.8 dohc motor. Even if it doesn't have vtec, it'll still be a fun motor. Swapping in a B16 tranny transforms the car - will get you Type-R gearing, just without the lsd, dual-cone synchros, and "R" tax. Kinda similar to the Celicas I guess in weight and motor I would think.
I'd go with the CRX. Most PDX instructors around here race light FWD cars, so they would be very comfortable in the car, and know the specifics of how to make you faster. On PDX's, the top speed really doesn't matter, just drive something fun...the CRX. PDX's really come down to the driver on who's going to be faster. I instructed a guy in a 328 i automatic in a group of turbo Evos, shelby mustangs, porshes, 135i, and a E92 M3, and we could keep up fine because of the guys skill (not to mention some FANTASTIC instructing...) Point is, top speed isn't a big deal, go with something fun to drive, reliable, and a good aftermarket for when you want to upgrade/replace. For me, I'd choose the CRX anyday.
Steven
Out of the three choices, I'd go with the CRX. It may be the least powerful of the bunch. But at under 2000lbs, a 105hp Si will get out of its own way quite nicely. The Prelude has excellent handling as well, but the CRX's lighter weight makes it even better, I think. And the only difficult thing to find about a CRX is finding a car that isn't either already rusted out and/or riced out.
I'm going to vote for the CRX too.
Are you looking for a dedicated track car?
I don't know what you consider "low cost" but there are always good deals on already prepared, IT cars, typically with spares, on the improvedtouring.com forums. There's always a few CRXes too.
Here are a few that are from the last few days:
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?p=287326
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27794
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27657
85 celica supra with 5spd gets my vote! Cheap to find, super reliable, good handling stock. not sure if your just lookin for a light weight front wheel driver, but id check em out.
I'm guessing cars on IT forums is not the target. That means buying a truck, trailer, possibly spares .Having a racecar undoubtedly leads to doing more work. Also, insurance won't cover a racecar, but they do cover streetcars because PDX's are Driver Education events.
Steven
StevenFV19 wrote: I'm guessing cars on IT forums is not the target. That means buying a truck, trailer, possibly spares .Having a racecar undoubtedly leads to doing more work. Also, insurance won't cover a racecar, but they do cover streetcars because PDX's are Driver Education events. Steven
^^^^^^^^Bingo!^^^^^^^^^ As much as I would love to have a prepared, full blown race car, I'm leaning towards a car I can drive too/from. My "tow" vehicle would be my wife's minivan. It has a tow capacity of 3500lbs. However, I've towed small stuff with it, and I don't think it would enjoy towing a car on a trailer or dolly. Plus I'd have to add a trans cooler to the van, etc.... Very sketchy if insurance would cover even in a PDX. I work in the auto insurance claims business, I read policies all day. Some policies "may" cover it, most won't. But that's why I'm looking for a cheap beater...if the worst happens, I can just walk away from the car and not worry.
It sounds as if your best bet then, is the CRX or equivalent Civic hatch. I'd steer clear of the Prelude ONLY because it's heavy for it's size (heavy=slow). The Celica, a GT anyway, is a decent "runner up".
BTW, as a daily driver, the 65 hp CRX HF, assuming you even find one, isn't a slouch in stock form. I once owned a Civic CX with the 70 hp engine....pick up is not lightening quick, but up to speed it holds 70-80 on all but the longest freeway grades.
My crx is an 88 DX. Make sure you test fit if you are a bigger bloke as the center console rubs my leg on extended trips. Stability over 100MPH is sketchy at best without a little more downforce; the rear tends to float a bit. I got mine as a theft recovery for $75. Clutch, seats, tires, and ignition switch and we were on the road. The Si has the preferred motor but the D15 is quite reliable too. Avoid the EW1 engine as the potential on it tapers without large money investments. Also, it has gobs of vacuum tubes which in my book is almost always a bad thing. Depending on the state you live in and rust expectations - check for rust around the windshield and the wheel arches. Trunk and tail light assemblies should also be checked for leaks though the tail lights can be had for cheap. These cars also have a rear ball joint that is integral to the control arm which makes it a little more to repair - prohibitive but something to be aware of. The stock brake configuration with improved rotors and pads (stainless lines would be nice too) can handle some decent power upgrades without worries. Overall I would not suggest an 88 model year. It was the first year of the second generation and has a few parts that are specific to that year only instead of the 89-92 range. On the other hand, these are quite easy to update to the newer engines and you can just about find parts in the middle of the road.
Let me throw one more potential car into the mix and get your feedback. I've seen a good number of 1st generation Eclipse/Talon/Lasers for sale. '91-'94 mostly. The prices are higher than the CRX/Prelude/Celica, but they weren't a fortune. Some were the AWD turbo models. They seem like they'd be a blast for HPDE, but weren't they fairly unreliable?
Klayfish wrote: Let me throw one more potential car into the mix and get your feedback. I've seen a good number of 1st generation Eclipse/Talon/Lasers for sale. '91-'94 mostly. The prices are higher than the CRX/Prelude/Celica, but they weren't a fortune. Some were the AWD turbo models. They seem like they'd be a blast for HPDE, but weren't they fairly unreliable?
They're reliable if you get a good one and treat it well. A really cheap one won't be reliable.
They also don't handle the greatest.
Not a great choice compared to the others, i suspect.
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