Learn me 07K before I make a mistake

Few months ago I noticed a 09 Jetta Wagon in front of my customer's house.  What I noticed most was every berking panel was dented.  I think I even remember some great stuff foam sealing the passenger rear door because it wouldn't close.  Seems her 18 year old daughter isn't a very good driver.  I gave her my number in case they ever went to sell it.  She text me yesterday saying they are looking at buying a new car.  We haven't talked details but this would be a donor for Lil Stampie's Audi 4000CS.  This VW is auto so is it like most engines that 's just a flywheel swap to be manual ready?

So much effort to keep it on the road without making an insurance claim makes me wonder if the seller fully owns the car or not. 

Do they hold a clear (paid) title? 

The Jetta owners may not have made claims to keep their rates from sky-rocketing.

I never made claims in high school or college...  not sure i would even now.

I was looking into an 07k swap pretty hard back when I owned my UrS6, but that was a while ago. I know there are a few documented swaps  on The Project Pad and other Audi forums. Iroz Motorsport used to sell swap parts, but I think he mostly sticks to RS3's and TTRS's now. I know some came with forged cranks from the factory, but I don't think there's a clear way of identifying those without opening the engine. 

John Welsh said:

So much effort to keep it on the road without making an insurance claim makes me wonder if the seller fully owns the car or not. 

Do they hold a clear (paid) title? 

Yeah it's just a case of not full coverage for a teen driver that apparently really sucks at driving.  Been a few months but IIRC the out of state dad bought the car for the kid when she turned 16.

Do you really want to pay money and do all the work required to swap an engine from a car that shows that level of neglect?  

In reply to TGMF :

I considered that but Challenge reasons.  I thought the first thing I'd do was ask when the last oil change had been.

If it's like the other VW motors I'm familiar with, you need to put in a pilot bearing as well.

07k engines are near free and manuals are plentiful and a relatively easy swap.

They are also being swapped into 944s too. The problem areas of the motor seem a lot less of a headache than the 2.0 FSI and TSI cars...

https://www.boostbrothersgarage.com/products/944-07k-swap-full-kit

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/803341-vw-audi-07k-2-5l-20v-i5-swap-thread.html

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

07k engines are near free and manuals are plentiful and a relatively easy swap.

Not in a small chassis.  

Iroz USED to make swap mounts and oil pan and intake manifold, but IIRC just the mounts and oil pan would blow the Challenge budget.

Also, the engine will not bolt up to a 4000CS's trans, the 07K has the four cylinder bolt pattern, the 016 trans in a 4000CS does not.  So you need an 01E transmission, and a different flywheel, and a modified starter.  To do the trans swap, you need different axles and driveshaft, and to use the different axles you need strut housings from an 80/90/Coupe Quattro.

This is why my Quantum Syncro (think 4000CS, but better rear suspension, and wagon!) has a much-modified Audi engine in it, and not a "cheap" 07K.

I feel like I used to trip over the 4/6 Audi transmissions from the b5's not the 6sp but the 5sp, which at 07k power levels should be plenty. Seemed like the easy button but maybe harder than I had remembered in those old ones (it's been awhile!).

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

I'm assuming that an 07K will be getting a big turbo and shooting for 600-800 horsepower.  I hang out on The Project Pad too much, I guess   It just has so much airflow compared to an AAN/3B 20v engine, so the big power guys started to gravitate to them.  Also shorter and lighter.

The only trick trans wise is finding a trans with a 4.11 final drive.  There were some 3.0 A6s that did.  If you don't mind an 01A unit then anything from an 80/90/Coupe Quattro should work.  I have zero clue what axle shenanigans are required, and I know the shifter is massively different.

Yeah I usually have similar assumptions but had milder ones for Stampie, maybe wrong ones!

I think 600-800hp might be assuming too much but is 400hp too mild for you guys?  Lady hasn't gotten back to me so might be moot point.  I've looked at the big/small trans patterns and doesn't look too hard to make an adapter.

Well, the thing that kinda sucks is most of the expense is in physically getting the engine into the car.  Once you've done that, and made any necessary upgrades to the engine (mainly rods), 400 costs about the same as 800, it's just a matter of how big your turbo and injectors are and how strong your clutch is.

I forgot one of the bigger issues.  The water pump is driven by the A/C compressor via a second belt.  I do not know if there is room in the front of the small chassis for the A/C compressor given the location of the radiator.  I understand that there are some newer applications that have a "single plane" belt drive, not sure if this is helpful or not.

I keep thinking about an 07K for my GTI because they howl with an equal length header like it's Group B again, but it's already front wheel drive, so that makes life a ton easier.  I also think about adapting one of the DSG transmissions, but those weigh 200lb and an 020 weighs something like 70, not a good plan for a 1900lb car that is already mostly nose weight.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Do you really need rods if your just driving a few miles?

In reply to Stampie :

Maybe?  VW rods aren't exactly compressed cheese but their limit is soooo easy to find with forced induction.

Now.  Now that I have gotten ALL of that out of the way.

Pete Idea has been to ignore the Iroz mounts and make my own.  Using the stock front mount, make a truss to the framerails.  The whole problem with engine mounting is that there is nothing on the driver's side to take a mount except for the mounting bosses for the oil filter, so the Iroz mount setup was a combination engine mount and fluid transfer device.  The Pete solution sidesteps all that by simply not mounting the engine by the side, just a three point arrangement with the trans mounts and the lone engine mount up front.  How long would that last?  No idea!  Haven't done it.

Still have the intake and oil pan issues to solve,  but I'd be amenable to a modified crossmember.  Intake.... well, that sucks, because the stock intake is in the way of the radiator. 

Stampie, is the end use drag? Challenge? 

VW rods are generally pretty strong compared to others. I wouldn't be surprised if they hold more than you think but will depend on fuel used and tuning. I have tuned a stock block 1.8t on methanol upwards of 700whp when we cracked a piston. The rods looked fine and it was a later small rod motor not early. IIRC they are similar to the 07k rods. 

I think mounting with a midplate (even a thin one) would be a bit better but don't know if that gets in the way also. 

Not sure the weight of the 02E dsg but it's enough I can't lift it, which for a drag racer that needs to take them out, will be a drag.

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

I just did one in a Jetta, shipping weight was 200lb.  It's a big mammajamma for sure!

Silly thing is that it died because an axle bolt fell out, and one of the reinforcing tabs scythed through the case.  Expensive bolt.

Midplate is a neat idea but the bellhousing is really close to the trans mounts, and exhaust passage to the rear is already kind of tricky.  One of the other advantages of my front mount idea was you could elimimate the motor mount arm and gain exhaust room.

Yeah this would be for Challenge so six autocross runs and enough 1/4 miles to get a good number or blow the engine.  Whichever comes first.

07K Facts thread from The Project Pad

"Hank" is/was the go to for small chassis 07K swap knowledge.