Learn Me '80s EVs

nimblemotorsports said:

Well if you live in the rust belt, maybe.  But then come out to the non-rust belt and get something better.

Here is a F250 van for $500 that needs a trans.

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/d/elverta-2000-ford-van-e250/7080975346.html

 

Or this one for $500 F150 van that needs a water pump fixed.

This one for $600 that needs a trans.   

I've made multiple trips to the west coast for rust free vehicles. 

It's well over a grand added to the cost of the vehicle, plus lost income for the minimum of a week that I will be away from here. Plus, that is if I am able to find something the 2 days that I am out there. It is not even in the same ballpark as paying a grand for something with close to zero miles that is local.

This isn't just rust free. It is basically Unused.  

0-30 in 9 seconds is alarming. It's much more alarming that they didn't mention how long it took to get to 60.

Can it actually hit 60? Or does it take so long that it might as well never be driven 60? Either way, I don't think I would care enough to figure out the answer there

Antihero said:

0-30 in 9 seconds is alarming. It's much more alarming that they didn't mention how long it took to get to 60.

Can it actually hit 60? Or does it take so long that it might as well never be driven 60? Either way, I don't think I would care enough to figure out the answer there

I'd say there is probably a good chance it can't. In the 60s there was a van road test comparison between the corvair greenbrier,ford econoline abd the vw bus. The corvair and the econoline 0-60 times were listed in the 28 to 30 second range. The vw had only 0-50 listed as it couldn't get to 60 in the test.

It lists a top speed of 70MpH.  

Probably takes several minutes to get there. 

Downhill. 

In reply to Cooter :

It's full of batteries. Inertia is its best friend...

Cooter said:

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Buy it and only convert the batteries. As long as you get the multiplier of voltage correct, you won't have to do too much on the battery side- as for battery replacements, you have more choices than tesla cells. Hybrid Toyotas use NiMH cells which are easily 1.5x the power density, can be drained fully without damaging them, and are WAY hardier than lithium and resistant to temperature- you could FILL that van with salvaged NiMH and probably still be lighter.

If I fill the back with batteries, it would be completely useless for hauling engines and mid century modern furniture.  At which point there would be no reason to own it.

It's never as simple as "just replace the battery packs with a completely different type and style"

I would really rather not have to deal with exploding lithium ion batteries...

Well I don't mean "fill the back" literally. Most of these just mounted boxes in the floor and between the frame rails up through into the motor compartment.

You are correct- it's never that easy as "drop in new batteries", and there's not a lot of impetuous into NiMH controllers as there are lithiums, since lithium is just so good in comparison. Not sure where nimblemotorsports gets that you can't paralell NiMH, since they are in prius packs. I'm more just tossing out the idea because NiMH deal with temperatures real well and (stock from Toyota) are thin plastic-wrapped bars that are just stacked together on a single +/- rail. Heck, they're only cooled by air- the Chrisfix video on their replacement in a 2nd gen Prius shows it well, and this Wikipedia pic shows each one well, they're the olive drab blocks. Obviously tho, if you're not comfortable with it don't do it and buy it as a clean chassis.

One cool thing about electric motors is that compared to ICEs they are closer to universal. As in, if it's an old-school brushed DC motor you literally feed it power and ground and it spins. Controlling how much is the harder part but controllers have made ridiculous strides in the decades since. In the 80s electric RC cars couldn't outrun a human, now they can outrun $100k sports cars. 

I expect you could leave the motor/trans setup in place and power it with more modern stuff and get a bunch more power at a lot less weight, but it would still take several thousand dollars to make it self-propelled with newer stuff. Might be more interesting as a parts donor for another project. 

I am an electrician by trade.   Motors are motors (mostly)

But the controllers are the issue.   It has nothing to do wth comfort.   As I have said before about EVs in general- I take trips that are far too long to deal with range issues.  Range issues that would be much worse with this van.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Prius packs are single cells in series.  When you charge NiMH, the cell voltage drops as they get full charged, and if you have two in parallel, one will start charging the other as its voltage drops, which makes its voltage drop more, a negative feedback loop == explosion.  

A car with low mileage that is still old is not like a new car at all.  Things deteriorate from time.  You will need a fuel tank, fuel lines, etc at minimum.  Who knows what else is missing.

Part of me would want to see it upgraded with some newer EV tech, but right now my dream is an EV van.

There would be some irony somewhere in converting an EV back to ICE power.  The fuel tank and associated bits would be an exercise, but doesn't seem terribly hard. After a quick search, it looks like most of the various parts to reinstall a fuel tank are available new.  Although restoring salvage parts would definitely be cheaper. 

The real question is how much of the rest of the van was modified for the EV components, but you won't really know until you start digging into it.  I wouldn't expect the conversion to be quick as there will likely be a number of "oh crap, I need to find one of these random parts" instances. 

I think it sounds cool and like a chance to play with something unusual and build up what you want. Would you just do a stock-like build or something more modern??

nimblemotorsports said:

Who knows what else is missing.

 

I do.

And what are these "things" you speak of?  The steering is tight, and it handles well.   Like a new van.

dculberson said:

I think it sounds cool and like a chance to play with something unusual and build up what you want. Would you just do a stock-like build or something more modern??

I would upgrade the drivetrain to a 5.9 Magnum and A518/46RH trans for a mid '90s van, but that is about it.   I've owned quite a few 3rg Gen Dodge vans over the years, and the lower the mileage, the nicer they are.   

This one was a 80K mile church van with a TBI 360 and a 727.   Bought it for $400 about 4 years ago and dove it to Portland and back.  Would have been happier with overdrive and MPFI, but otherwise it was a great van.   Sold it to a friend when I scored the Sprinter.

I’m curious if some sort of hybrid setup would be possible - electric to the front and gasoline to the back. Probably not. 

In reply to mtn :

I would love a hybrid van.    Just don't see how to build one for a GRM budget. 

Cooter said:

In reply to mtn :

I would love a hybrid van.    Just don't see how to build one for a GRM budget. 

 

That's not a van.

THIS is a van.

Cooter said:

nimblemotorsports said:

Who knows what else is missing.

 

I do.

And what are these "things" you speak of?  The steering is tight, and it handles well.   Like a new van.

Tight steering in a Dodge van?  Is that even a thing?  

I am saddened by the lack of Dajiban enablers.

sure it needs a fuel tank and lines and filler neck and exhaust system... but so would any other $1000 van, so that point is moot.  Actually, since it was a conversion, I wonder how much of that stuff was abandoned in place rather than removed to save weight.  Given that they were running the electric motor through an automatic trans, expedience was probably a higher priority than maximum results.

The few examples I've seen of people trying to convert EVs back to gas, it was harder than they imagined.   If one is trying to 'learn', they might take consider that advice.  If they have all the answers, then why ask the question.    It was typical back them to build sturdy heavy battery boxes to store the  large number of lead acid batteries and doing so  you remove all kinds of structure for the fuel tank and other useless items.   The lead acid would also leak and corrode things.  Now you have 15 hellholes.   ;)    But I have not seen this van, it might be 'perfect'.

I have seen this van.  That photo above is of the van in my friend's driveway.

I never asked about "learn me to convert an electric Dodge van back to an ICE"   Got that covered, thanks.

This was my actual question=
 

Cooter said:

Might end up with this van.   I will likely just strip out the drivetrain and repower it with an ICE, as I don't think is likely to be worth the trouble for me buy a new set of batteries.  

 

~photo snip~

Are any of the components even worth anything nowadays?

 

Notice that nowhere in there did I ask if it would be better to drive  to California with a tow rig for a clapped out 200,000 mile non drivable Ford that I would have to tow 2,000 miles home.    Or what might have been done to convert it to an EV.   Again, I can see the vehicle, and even touch it.   It is 22.8 miles from my home, door to door.  I know what has been done.  No speculation from 2,000 miles away needed.  Again, got that part covered.

Now I understand that it may hurt your feelings that I won't take your wonderful advice and buy something else from many states away.

But that is not what I asked.

The reason I asked "Are any of the components even worth anything nowadays?" is because I wanted to know (wait for it) is if any of the components even worth anything nowadays.

Please don't blame me for your lack of reading comprehension.

In reply to Cooter :

It is amazing how people often ignore the actual question being asked.

In answer to your question, I think you could get something for the parts removed but how much depends on what the parts are. There's not a lot of info out there about these vans. I'm betting the motor and controller are off the shelf parts and you could probably get a few hundred bucks for them. But it all depends on what exactly they are. 
 

some of the early Chrysler made electric vans (they were Caravans) used NiCad batteries (ugh!!) and others used NiMH. Most early electric cars used lead acid. Any of them will probably just be scrap at this point but lead acid are probably worth the most as scrap. I'm not even sure if it's possibly to get money for scrap NiCad or NiMH batteries. They have to have some value but most consumer level places just take them "free." If they're lead acid you would want to call around to get pricing. Some places pay the same as sheet steel (not much!) but the electronics recycling place near me pays $.25/lb for lead acid batteries. That might be a couple hundred bucks from this van.

Im totally wild guessing it but if you paid $1000 for this van I bet with some careful parting out and scrapping bits and some patience you could get close to zeroing out the shell. It all hinges on the motor and controller in my opinion  

The EV 024 omnis are really cool, I have been keeping my eyes open for one.