Is a 1st gen RX-7 a good car for a relatively inexperienced backyard mechanic? I've been looking for a miata for years (want a 94-97 w/LSD) that is decent and that is not as easy as it sounds up here in the Northeast.
Someone suggested that I also look at the 1st gen RX-7. After doing a little research it seems they can have a number of issues... would it be too much for my first dedicated 'fun' car?
They're super easy to work on! I don't know about where you're at, but up here in the damp NW parts are still easy to come by, even complete running 12A's as everybody wants to swap in a 13B for some reason. I actually haven't had any issues with mine that couldn't be directly connected to racing the wheels off of it. It's been 100% reliable in street driving, and has got me home from racing every time.
As for the car itself, the "78" (early 79's) and 79's had a unique sunroof that's hard to come by, otherwise they're identical to the 80 (78-80 are the SA). 81-83 are pretty much the same (FB, Series 2), and then 84-85 are again (FB, S3). You'll want the GSL as it has 4-wheel disc and an LSD. Lots of lower models (S, GS, LE) have had the rear swapped, which is fine. The 84-85 GSL-SE has an injected 13B and more common 4x114.3 bolt pattern with a FWD offset.
They really are great cars and drive like a slightly older Miata. The similarities are neat, you can see a lot of S1/S2 RX-7 in the NA Miata, like the dash layout. Basically grab one with little to no rust and go to town, they're a Mazda and all Mazda's are good. 
Do you need to drive it daily? If yes, pass on it - they are getting old and most have been abused.
Other than that, they aren't any more complicated than any other mid-80s car.
Structurally, rust is a problem. Rear suspension pickups, floor (especially under the cargo bins behind the seats).
Mechanically, the diff and trans are stout enough and easy to replace. The 12A is generally reliable, BUT there are a few things to watch out for: 1. Overheating. Any sign of it, and pass (or count on replacing the engine). 2. Emissions are a pain in the rear. Rats nest of vacuum hoses and solenoids running all over the place. If you're in a non-emissions area - rip it all off, plug the vacuum ports and call it a day. Otherwise, prepare for some time diagnosing problems. The car has a carb, but also has a very basic ECU of sorts, and the vacuum stuff.
The car had three catalysts and they all suck. Replace the forward cats with a straight pipe, and the main cat with a high-flo and it will pass sniffers fine and pick up a good bit of power.
The suspension is simple. Mac strut in front, solid axle rear. The rear doesn't like to be lowered too much, it binds up, so either leave it near stock height, or plan on welding up a three-link or something similar.
Brakes are pretty good. Not CRX or Miata good, but better than most cars of the era.
Rear axle came in disc and drum varieties. Disc came on the GSL and had a LSD. Drum came on base and GS and no LSD. But, the pumpkin can be swapped between them.
GSL-SE was the 84/85 fuel injected version. Nice cars, but harder to find and usually a good bit more money.
Also, the rear axle and front spindle size changed between 83 and 84 (I think they both changed that year). Many cars have had been swapped (either to the later for strength, or the earlier for weight) - no problem with either, just double check what you have before ordering parts.
I had an 84 base model that I swapped a GSL-SE drivetrain and brakes into.
Pluses: Nice, simple, clean styling. Light by today's standards. Easy to work on. Sorta-kinda practical by 2-seater standards, the hatch and storage bins can hold a lot.
Minuses: Engine Engine Engine
Yes, I hate rotaries. I went through 3 of them in my car, one by overheating, one by overrevving and breaking an apex seal at an autocross, and the last one was pretty shaky when I sold it. They flood if you look at them sideways, the fuel economy sucks, their high exhaust temps require heavy, expensive exhaust parts, rebuilding them is a pain, and good luck getting that flywheel nut off or torquing it correctly when you put it back on.
I like FBs and RX-7s in general. But if I ever get another one, it will have an American V8 put in.
All the highlights have been covered above with one exception: the recirculating ball steering has a slow ratio and is prone to getting sloppy. It's not unusual to find one with ~2" of play at the wheel. But generally 90% of that can be adjusted out.
I lubs 1st gens. 
Tom_Spangler wrote: Minuses: Engine Engine Engine Yes, I hate rotaries. I went through 3 of them in my car, one by overheating, one by overrevving and breaking an apex seal at an autocross, and the last one was pretty shaky when I sold it. They flood if you look at them sideways, the fuel economy sucks, their high exhaust temps require heavy, expensive exhaust parts, rebuilding them is a pain, and good luck getting that flywheel nut off or torquing it correctly when you put it back on.
Don't listen to Tom, he tried to date a supermodel on a mac'n'cheese mentality and the relationship broke down. His car had a Dellortto carb on it so the drivability sucked and there were no electronic nannies to hold his hand and stop it over revving. He can't blame overheating on the engine, maybe the mechanic :). The last one was sold to him as an unknown quantity so he can't complain.
Honestly, would you stop dating blonds just because the last one was psycho? No, give it another try Tom :) She dumped on you so you dumped her :)
I love Rotaries and miss my FC. My big beef with them is the utterly crappy gas mileage that is completely unacceptable for daily driving. My bigger beef is this 1.2 or 1.3L crap for claimed capacity. I hate it when rotor heads say 'see how much power I get out of 1.3L' trying to compare it with a 4 cycle piston engine. Eerrr 4 strokes fire once every other revolution not 3 times per rev. It's comparing apples to elephants, both are organic material but the similarities end their.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: Honestly, would you stop dating blonds just because the last one was psycho? No, give it another try Tom :) She dumped on you so you dumped her :)
You make some good points, I was trying to do it on the cheap, and that carb sure didn't help matters, but personally I'm done with them. There are too many other ways to have fun with cars for me to go down that road again. BTDT.
In the October issue of Grassroots we have a buyers guide coming out for them but most of the points have been breezed over here. All of them are good cars but definitely check for rust behind the storage bins. It takes a while for it to get structural but once it does it is a PITA. A little smoke is normal at startup but it should go away pretty quickly.
I personally am a sucker for them. I am going on ten years of ownership and have had about 6 of them. Currently I have an 84 GSL-SE and a 79 Spark Yellow car.
Hmmm... Why not get a 94 Miata and swap in the LSD?
That being said, the 1st gen RX7 is a nice nostalgic old sports car. Very simple to work on and fun to drive. They make some decent, cheap and reliable race cars as well.
You can look for them on Rx7club.com - http://www.rx7club.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=109&page=1&pp=50&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=30&prefixid=
Don't be afraid to travel a bit to get the car you want. Flights aren't that expensive these days. :)
I don't get the unreliable engine arguments. Buy the highest mileage one you can find. Mine has 236,xxx miles on it now, I bought it from the original owner in Feb 08 with 229K on it, never been rebuilt. Gas mileage isn't that bad when you uncork the exhaust, I see 20-21 on the freeway (at 60, it goes down to 17-18 at 70) and about 10 autocrossing 
They made soooo many of them that it's easy to be picky and find a clean, unmolested one for cheap. It took me less than a month to find mine and I even like the color.
P71 wrote: Gas mileage isn't that bad when you uncork the exhaust, I see 20-21 on the freeway (at 60, it goes down to 17-18 at 70) and about 10 autocrossing
That's terrible mileage for the power it's producing.
This will not be my daily driver so I am not that concerned with the mileage. I am looking for a car that is light, nimble, and easy to work on. Basically, this will be my first car that I can actually work on, tinker, learn and not have to worry if I can't fix it right away if something goes wrong. A miata is an easier sell to my lady, as she loves the idea of a convertible, but who knows what will come up...
My understanding is parts are relatively cheap (not miata cheap) unless you have to have a motor rebuilt. Is that correct?
If you don't require the nostalgic look, the 2nd gen RX-7 is a good choice. They are available in a vert, which would fancy your wife. They make a respectable amount of power, and have mediocre-to-decent fuel economy (I've hit 26mpg highway, usually average around 20mpg mostly city and driven hard). The interiors are much more confortable and they are roughly the same price for a decent example.
why rebuild when good used ones are so cheap? unless you overheat them or drive them too gently or too rarely, they really don't give out.
I love mine. It's loud, slow, 30 years old, and rusty. What's not to like.
BadgerSpeed wrote: This will not be my daily driver so I am not that concerned with the mileage. I am looking for a car that is light, nimble, and easy to work on. Basically, this will be my first car that I can actually work on, tinker, learn and not have to worry if I can't fix it right away if something goes wrong. A miata is an easier sell to my lady, as she loves the idea of a convertible, but who knows what will come up... My understanding is parts are relatively cheap (not miata cheap) unless you have to have a motor rebuilt. Is that correct?
Parts are reasonably cheap but getting harder to find. Lady types usually aren't too hip on noisy cars - which the RX7 becomes if/when you do an exhaust. The lady types do love convertibles also. They sure are fun to drive.
The 88-90 (FC) RX7 convertible is one of the better convertibles that I have ever driven. With the top down, you don't get beat up by the wind like you do in the Miata. Its fun to drive and a great cruiser and is quickly becoming a desireable cult classic.
I have owned an 84 RX-7 and a couple of NA Miata's. The Miata is an RX-7 with all it's problems fixed.
No more sloppy steering. No rotary. Better suspension.
The rotary in and of itself isn't a problem. Mine ran like a top and revved like a weedwhacker fueled by redbull. The other points mentioned above still apply re: gas mileage and all.
The steering on mine was just bad. I didn't trust it and decided that on the track I wanted a car with a better feel.
The bolt pattern for the wheels was the other problem. That bolt pattern is tough to find anything for.
All that being said..I've seen some killer deals on well maintained cars that would be cheap enough to sacrifice to the track speed gods. If you want a car to cut teeth on, for cheap, then go for it. Just realize it isn't going to run forever or be the fastest. In the meantime you'll be able to go out and hoon around some. Just be prepared to maintain it, repair it, and realize it's limitations as a 20+ year old car.
The thread on modern classics should include these if it doesn't already. We'll get all weepy eyed nostalgic over stock examples in 5 years. Especially in that nut brown that matches gold disco chains.
Realistically though, other than the nostalgia, and some storage room is there any reason not to just go with a Miata? That might make an interesting comparison test. Maybe throw in the 2nd gen also, they are all pretty cheap now (talking early Miatas of course)
I am certainly all for the nostalgia, but if you are looking for "bang for buck" you might just look towards the other Mazda.
aircooled wrote: Realistically though, other than the nostalgia, and some storage room is there any reason not to just go with a Miata? That might make an interesting comparison test. Maybe throw in the 2nd gen also, they are all pretty cheap now (talking early Miatas of course) I am certainly all for the nostalgia, but if you are looking for "bang for buck" you might just look towards the other Mazda.
Depends what you are looking for and how big you are.
The FC is a more 'robust' chassis that can handle a lot of power and fits people of all sizes. The Miata was meant to be a small, agile car and adding too much power leads to challenges from the chassis - short wheel base, not much room for wide tires or brakes, limited space for a robust tranny or diff.
The FB, SA 1st gen RX7s also have some chassis shortcoming that can be engineered around. I think their real advantage is the price point and overall robustness of the car. With enough engineering that chassis still does real well in E-Prod.
Make sure that emissions testing wont be an issue where you live, I am in cali and first gen rx7s arent clean enough to pass here unless they are 100% perfect (which means the only place you really see them is pick and pull). I think for a race car its fine though.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: My bigger beef is this 1.2 or 1.3L crap for claimed capacity. I hate it when rotor heads say 'see how much power I get out of 1.3L' trying to compare it with a 4 cycle piston engine. Eerrr 4 strokes fire once every other revolution not 3 times per rev. It's comparing apples to elephants, both are organic material but the similarities end their.
Comparing crankshaft revolutions in a piston engine to rotor revolutions in a rotary is also comparing apples to oranges. Moreover, a rotary is a four cycle engine. There are distinct intake, compression, combustion, and exhaust phases.
I agree that magical spinning triangles are different than pistons, but you won't convince anyone that a comparison is misleading by making misleading comparisons of your own.
The FC 'verts are heavy as Ellie Mae Clampett's biscuits. I'm talking ~3100 pounds dry and empty. Neat car, but look elsewhere for performance.
I don't have too much to add other than general rotary knowledge. I own an '87 FC-chassis N/A with 99K on the chassis and 11K on a rebuilt 13B. Aside from a few electrical bugs and having to replace a lot of wear items, it's been perfectly fine. It's a nice car to learn how to wrench, and it's fun to drive to boot!
Keep up with oil changes. Rotaries are designed to burn a little oil in order to keep the apex seals lubed. If you run out of crankcase oil, you're screwed. If you want to, you can remove the oil metering pump (OMP, a.k.a. MOP) and add two-stroke premix at every fill-up. You'll need a blocking plate to do this.
The classifieds on rx7club.com and rotarycarclub.com are your friends. SA/FBs and FCs are old cars, so you'll most likely need to replace a lot of wear items.
If the SA/FB recirc. ball steering really cheeses you off, a rack-and-pinion swap from an FC is possible. The FC's steering is much improved over the SA/FB's IMHO, but whether or not to do the swap is up to you. Some prefer the recirc. ball or keep it due to their racing class's rules.
BadgerSpeed wrote: I am looking for a car that is light, nimble, and easy to work on. Basically, this will be my first car that I can actually work on, tinker, learn and not have to worry if I can't fix it right away if something goes wrong. A miata is an easier sell to my lady, as she loves the idea of a convertible, but who knows what will come up...
Jeep? VW Ghia? Old Corvair? MGB?
Plenty of old convertibles that are easy to find and assemble. And, unless the RX-7 will be autocrossed or something, the convertibles are probably more fun (in purely cruising around looking cool terms).
About the recirc ball steering: the non-GSL-SE cars had an (IIRC) 22:1 ratio box, really slow. It's not a complete killer, I just had to shuffle the wheel REALLY REALLY fast in some situations. The GSL-SE came with power steering and was (again IIRC) 16:1. It's not a hard swap, you just have to make sure you get everything from the box to the steering wheel. You can loop the hoses and run it without power steering, it will be harder to turn at parking lot speeds but not overly difficult.
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