Learn me Dodge Raider?

I really have no need for such a thing, but keep thinking about what the next project will be, because I'm bored and kind of want a new project that I can do on the cheap. I have an old race car. I have an old sportscar. I have a large SUV. Kind of want something that's a bit unusual but has good parts availability from the 80s/90s. 

I keep running across cheap Dodge Raiders. I know it's just a rebadged Mitsu Pajero. I'm not sure why I even would want one since I"m not much into offroading (at least, not slowly!) and I live in the burbs.  But, for some reason I've always thought they were cool (a statement that has gotten me into cars that I ended up disliking, more than once)

More notably, seems like most of the ones I see for cheap have shot engines. Seems like the 6G72 V6 can be found in about a dozen common junkyard cars, and the weak 4-bangers in these come from various available thigns as well.

Anyhow, any love for these around here? Are they pretty decent to work on, or are they a stupid design with stupid parts?  Do they rust away to nothing, or is it possible to find a decently clean example for cheap, since nobody wants old Mitsubishi-fake-Dodge trucks?

Do I even want to consider this, or it just something I'll end up hating?

I like the 2.4 4 cylinder versions. 

You will LOVE it.  Why?  Well, simple, rugged vehicles like this (and Jeeps and Suzukis and trucks) are just inherently great. They are pure, easy to work on, enjoyable to operate, and different. Second, flat cars with straight lines are easier to deal with than complex curves. And there are some great 80's tech you can use, like 40w stereo boosters and CB radios. I loved them when they were new and I still check them out from time to time. 

Nothing to ad but a 2dr one in great shape frequently hung out at a house on my street. It looked like a kick butt little truck.

Only ever saw one in DC driving around town.  That was a while ago.  I remember digging it. 

0 aftermarket in the US

pinchvalve said:

You will LOVE it.  Why?  Well, simple, rugged vehicles like this (and Jeeps and Suzukis and trucks) are just inherently great. They are pure, easy to work on, enjoyable to operate, and different. Second, flat cars with straight lines are easier to deal with than complex curves. And there are some great 80's tech you can use, like 40w stereo boosters and CB radios. I loved them when they were new and I still check them out from time to time. 

I will note that my previous "old 4x4" project was what I always wanted when I was in high school in the 90s - an XJ cherokee.

So I got the cooler, early 2-door XJ with manual transmission. Did a bunch of stuff to it, and ..... really didn't like it at all. It looked cool. But man the interior sucked, brakes sucked, and RENIX engine management really made me hate it.  I didn't like driving it at all, and it was gone within weeks of my wife buyhing a (new) 4Runner. 

So I am kind of looking for a re-do on that genre of vehicles. But I just don't want a Jeep, and i love 4Runenrs, but already had them and don't want to pay the huge asking price for a non-rusty 80s 4Runner :)

MrChaos said:

0 aftermarket in the US

not a big concern. I would keep it stock-ish since I'm not real interested in any real wheeling. As long as I can get OEM-replacement type parts for it RockAuto, whatever, that's fine. Seems as if most of it is just widely-used Mitsubishi stuff, or engine parts that were used in all kinds of 80s-90s stuff. 

irish44j said:

MrChaos said:

0 aftermarket in the US

not a big concern. I would keep it stock-ish since I'm not real interested in any real wheeling. As long as I can get OEM-replacement type parts for it RockAuto, whatever, that's fine. Seems as if most of it is just widely-used Mitsubishi stuff, or engine parts that were used in all kinds of 80s-90s stuff. 

 

4g63 swap, you know you want to.

A lifted Tracker/Vitara seems cool. 

I was gonna reference the XJ since we've both had them. The Montero/Raider is not anywhere near as easily upgradable, but it's probably AS capable with the typical <3" lift of mildly upsized tires on all stock running gear. I think where it shines relative to the XJ, is that it doesn't feel like it's NOT an on-road vehicle. Aside from the looks in and out, my favorite thing about my 87 Montero is that it drives completely normally! I've had 4 XJs and depending on tire setup  (none of them were ever big, either) they could feel like they were operating on pretty thin margins trying to go straight at 70+ mph and an emergency maneuver was almost certainly going to be a disaster.  The Montero would probably tip over but at least it doesn't make you feel that way. 

But yeah, looks inside and out are awesome in my opinion on the 2 drs (4dr 1st gens are meh to me, 4dr 2nd gens are sweet but none of those exist in Raider form anyway) and the interior ergonomics are better than an xj. Very roomy, shifter is feather light and fun to use vs the AX15 which to me felt like a big truck transmission in a tiny truck body in terms of shift feel. Pedal placement also makes heel-toe easy which has no real purpose other than entertaining yourself, but good pedal placement feels like a luxury outside of a real sports car so it's nice. A 4.0 XJ is way torquier but i've never minded 2.5L Jeeps anyway and the 2.6 Montero feels similar to that. As i mentioned elsewhere mine will hit 100mph which is pointless but goes to show that it's faster than it needs to be unless you're actually trying to drag race someone. I plan to turbo mine mostly so that it won't suck at altitude, but a 3.0/5spd would be fun to drive to begin with and i probably wouldn't modify one much aside from exhaust. The 3.0 can make a pretty sexy noise with the right muffler. The 2.6 is like the 4.0 in that they just sound like tractor engines. Mine has a flowmaster 40 (i think? it was used when i scrounged it off something else and i didn't look up part #) and it's slightly obnoxious but the amount and type of noise i think is fitting for how the thing looks when it's rolling past so i don't plan to change it until turbo. 

I guess i should take some newer pics but my Montero has mostly been hitched up via tow bar to another dead project to pull it in and out of my shop lately. 

^ good stuff, that's the kind of information I'm looking for.

Also doesn't hurt that they're short and fit easily in a garage as winter project (a foot shorter than my e30).

Seems like most of them I see in this region are from "country" areas, so kind of wondering what the rust situation is with them. Nothing apparent in photos, but are these known to get significant frame rust (*cough* Toyota)?

In reply to irish44j :

Hey, not to interrupt but could you post a link to your roof rack over here?

John Welsh said:

In reply to irish44j :

Hey, not to interrupt but could you post a link to your roof rack over here?

done!

I’ve owned to 90’s XJ’s and loved them but rust was their downfall. I’ve been intrigued by the Raider for years but the ones I see for sale local seem to to be 3k with issues. 

rattfink81 said:

I’ve owned to 90’s XJ’s and loved them but rust was their downfall. I’ve been intrigued by the Raider for years but the ones I see for sale local seem to to be 3k with issues.

I just spent some time browsing Raider parts on RockAuto. Looks like pretty much everything is available, and parts prices seem crazy low for most things. 

The Raiders I see in this area, most are under $3k, and some are under $1k with issues (mostly bad engines). I'm ok with that since I want a project, not something already done. 

We've had a '85 SWB Montero for a few years and it has been a blast!  Like you found they are very cheap for what you get, difficulty is finding one in decent shape.  Parts are comically inexpensive; we replaced everything in the front end (rotors, pads, all ball joints, tie rods, shocks) for less than $200.   Its one of the easiest cars to work on in my experience, tons of room with the 2.6L 4 Cylinder and very simple.

The 2.6L 4-cylinder 5-speed is a fun combo, ours has a weber carburetor which in my mind is a necessary upgrade.  The OEM carburetor was a Mikuni unit that had all sorts of emissions components, and was electronically controlled.  Going to a weber DGEV significantly simplifies the powertrain.  Header upgrades are useless, most of the cheap ones are tuned incorrectly and move the powerband too high which does not suit this engine.  The drivetrain is very stout, though the 5-speed unit could be a limiting factor if you want to make more power later on.  4WD system is bulletproof, other than the factory "auto" hubs, a lot of guys upgrade to Aisin or ARB manual hubs.

The factory AC in ours still works and blows very cold, pretty impressive for a R12 system.

If you want to get really crazy, there is always the potential for a 4G63 swap, or even a 2.6L Turbo swap from a Starion/Conquest (Actually the long block is very similar, so all that is needed to add a turbo to a 2.6L Montero is: ECU, wiring harness, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, turbo , and some fabrication).

Here is some good information to start.  Adventure Driven Design is one of the few US companies that make skid plates, offer suspension packages, etc. for the Gen 1 and Gen 2 platforms.

https://forum.adventuredrivendesign.com/index.php?topic=132.0

There is a buyers guide here that has nearly all the info you want, need to subscribe to get it:

http://www.adventuredrivendesign.com/mitsubishi-4wd-buyers-guide/

If you want something really different, look into importing a Gen 2 SWB Diesel.  They go for less than $4K USD at JDM Auctions, and are extremely capable.  The Gen 2 is quite a nice step up from the Gen 1 with interior quality and driving feel, though a lot of the underpinnings are similar.

Cool history on the Montero here:

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-asian/curbside-classic-1989-mitsubishi-montero-an-off-roader-in-a-grocery-getter-world/

^ Man, thanks for posting that. I stole almost every pic in it for my Montero collection and it was a pretty interesting read too, especially the part about there being a real stupid reason why we never got 2nd and 3rd gens as 2-doors.

they came with a factory tip meter. That's cool. 

Nothing really to add...

My college roommate had one of these, and it was a great little rig.  He did the weber carb/header and added a winch.  It only got us stuck once, and that was because we were screwing around in the snow.  Winch got us out.  It was nice to drive on-road, though a bit underpowered for SoCal traffic with the 4 banger.  This was in the late 80s, so it was a new vehicle at the time.  Don't know how they are when they age.

I liked it so much that it was one of my candidates for a 4x4 when looking a few years ago.  They're few and far between here in AZ, and I ended up with a 90s Bronco instead.

I always thought the hot ticket would be a turbo diesel swap from a non-US Pajero, but now you can just import one...

Reviving this old post to get some input for people more knowledgeable than I. 

I just found an old raider that im interested in but im a little weary of the 260,000 miles. I have rebuilt motorcycle engines in the past and would be happy to take the plunge on a car engine if I needed to, but I also dont want to get too in over my head. 

Asking price is 4k...apart from high miles its in really great cosmetic condition. 

Is this engine ready to blow, or do these just keep going and going? 

Thanks in advance

Which motor is in it? 

In reply to fatallightning :

this is all I got in terms of which motor:

Sent over a text but im waiting to call until I have a little more confidence

Yep, that's the 4-cylinder. 4G54/G54B. It definitely didn't make it to 260k miles without at least one rebuild, maybe two. They are typically 80-100k mile engines. I'd be looking for some maintenance records.