Learn me how to add a turbo to a non turbo car. How to tune?

Yo!

I have a brand new turbo with integrated wastegate.

I have a brand new intercooler.

I have a brand new blow off valve.

I have a bunch of piping.

I have a manual boost controller.

I want to turbocharge the 2004 MazdaFree for the challenge.

I understand all the plumbing and what should go where.  What I don't know is how to actually tune the thing.

Anybody know if there is a way to tune the stock ecu?  Or, anybody know a VERY cheap way to throw in an aftermarket ECU?

The car is a 2004 2.3l MZR 5 speed manual.

Searching has been a bit difficult because most of the search results pull up mazda3 info.  That engine is different enough that I can't just mix and match.

Anyway...  any help is appreciated.

Exactly what sort of car is this, a Protege? That will help figure out if anything can be done with the stock ECU.

A Microsquirt is often a good cheap standalone - or Speeduino if you're feeling more adventurous.

See if you can find out the injector sizing of the factory injectors as that may be a needed purchase for something slightly larger (depending on boost goals / targets)

Is it a MAP of MAF engine? There can be ways to *trick* the OEM into playing "OK" with boost as long as you aren't looking for record power levels.

Ah,sorry!

This is the MazdaFree.  A 2004 mazda 3 that was given away by Toyman.  It will be a challenge car in 2026.

It is a 5 speed manual with the stock 2.3l mzr engine.

I'd like to make about 220 - 250 hp (should be safe on stock internals).

There is a remote tuning option with the stock ecu, but they want like $1,100 to do that.  

I'd like to be closer to half that dollar figure.

DjGreggieP said:

See if you can find out the injector sizing of the factory injectors as that may be a needed purchase for something slightly larger (depending on boost goals / targets)

Is it a MAP of MAF engine? There can be ways to *trick* the OEM into playing "OK" with boost as long as you aren't looking for record power levels.

 

There is a 2.5bar sensor from the mazdaspeed 3 that is apparently somewhat compatible with the NA ecu.  This car has both an AFM and a map sensor.

I have reached out about possible cheap fuel pump and injector sources to supply fuel to make 250hp.

Back in "the day", Neon guys would put in a bigger fuel pump, bigger injectors, a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, and a "missing link" to use the stock ECU for boost.  The rrfpr would index the fuel pressure to boost levels for you and the missing link was some sort of simplistic electronic wizardry that would fool the ECU into seeing a MAP signal that it thought was rational when you were in boost.

You can also do a piggyback megasquirt or microsquirt.  There's probably a map out there that will be pretty close.  I don't know what that looks like price wise now, though.  Back when I did it, you could just a bag o' parts and solder it up.  It seems like everyone wants you to buy their expensive plug and play kits now though.

My caveman understanding is you need a Tactrix Openport adapter and a license for an editor software like MazdaEdit.  Maybe you can find someone that has one or both of these things?

 

Fuel and spark control is the biggest issue. You need both for turbocharging. This usually means standalone ECU. Do piggybacks even exist anymore? You will need to run way richer than the stock ECU wants to run, and you will need to retard ignition. Maybe there are ways to trick the stock ECU into doing that.

Unless there is a Mazda-specific piggback solution, then a Megasquirt is probably the cheapest way to go. 

Everything else is easy, just fabrication and stuff similar to engine swapping. 

For my 2007 Mazda3 I went through Dynotronics to get a Mazdaedit license and they are providing remote tuning as well.  License is VIN specific.  
 

For a piggyback, there are still a lot of AEM FI/Cs out there which have a good knowledge base and work fairly well. I've looked into them fairly well as that is the only way I can supercharge my NSX and still pass OBD2 plug in emissions.  

If you can find a used Voodoo Box from FM, that may provide your fuel solution. Then you retard the ignition timing by moving the ignition pickup or modifying the trigger wheel. It's a bit crude but should be cheap cheap and have no tuning hassles. Your peak power will be limited by the ability of the stock injectors to deliver fuel, figure maybe 80% over stock. 

wae said:

Back in "the day", Neon guys would put in a bigger fuel pump, bigger injectors, a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, and a "missing link" to use the stock ECU for boost.  The rrfpr would index the fuel pressure to boost levels for you and the missing link was some sort of simplistic electronic wizardry that would fool the ECU into seeing a MAP signal that it thought was rational when you were in boost.

The rising rate regulators were only good on MAP based cars, they would probably do horrible things with a MAF.  Normal regulators adjust fuel pressure in a 1:1 ratio with manifold pressure so that there was always a 43psi (or whatever) pressure difference between the fuel rail and the intake manifold.  Rising rate regulators would have a 2:1 to 4:1 ratio when above atmospheric pressure, to force more fuel through the injectors.  So at 5psi boost you might have 68psi fuel pressure instead of 48psi like a straight rate.

They didn't work well but were better than nothing.

The "missing link" was probably a Zener diode to cap the MAP sensor reading at 4.5v or so.  All fueling in boost would be up to the fuel pressure rocketing up, which also affected fuel injector deadtimes and the fuel pump flows a lot less at those pressures....  Again, didn't work well but better than nothing.

A lot of supercharged Fox bodies blew lots of head gaskets due to those things!

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

wae said:

Back in "the day", Neon guys would put in a bigger fuel pump, bigger injectors, a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, and a "missing link" to use the stock ECU for boost.  The rrfpr would index the fuel pressure to boost levels for you and the missing link was some sort of simplistic electronic wizardry that would fool the ECU into seeing a MAP signal that it thought was rational when you were in boost.

The rising rate regulators were only good on MAP based cars, they would probably do horrible things with a MAF.  Normal regulators adjust fuel pressure in a 1:1 ratio with manifold pressure so that there was always a 43psi (or whatever) pressure difference between the fuel rail and the intake manifold.  Rising rate regulators would have a 2:1 to 4:1 ratio when above atmospheric pressure, to force more fuel through the injectors.  So at 5psi boost you might have 68psi fuel pressure instead of 48psi like a straight rate.

They didn't work well but were better than nothing.

The "missing link" was probably a Zener diode to cap the MAP sensor reading at 4.5v or so.  All fueling in boost would be up to the fuel pressure rocketing up, which also affected fuel injector deadtimes and the fuel pump flows a lot less at those pressures....  Again, didn't work well but better than nothing.

 

A lot of supercharged Fox bodies blew lots of head gaskets due to those things!

Yeah, don't do a RRFPR with a MAF system. It works with a MAP system as a band-aid solution but like Pete said, it's not the right way and it will likely end in a kaboom at some point. Some of the GM OBD1 guys would use those to cheat it without having to learn how to tune the car. Just slap a 4-bar MAP sensor for a GNX or SyTy in to keep the ECM from losing its mind, add a rising rate FPR to make sure the extra fuel is there, and proceed to romp on it.

I think the cheapest way would be a microsquirt and try to see what kind of junkyard injectors you can grab to give a better flow rate. Stockers might be fine for a little boost but you want to try to stay below 80% of the rated duty cycle of the injectors so you don't risk going static. I'm sure the newer PWM injectors are a different beast than the old school ones I've used but I'm still old and paranoid and like to have some head room with fueling. Get off my lawn.

A little digging and you can figure out what other cars use similar style injectors and try to grab some on the cheap. Possibly the MS3 and MSM would be good donors, maybe see if someone who upgraded their turbo has a set of stock injectors laying around?

Even found this handy chart on Miata.net with stock flow rates. Looks like the 3 uses the same injectors as the NC with .3 more liters of power so there's probably a little less room for added fueling as they sit. There are formulas for calcluating flow rates in relation to engine size/boost levels too.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=571726

In reply to cobra17 :

MSM injectors ae the same as all other 2001-05 Miata injectors and are actually the same size as 1994-97 but run at higher pressure on the NB.   

Back in the Stone Age, we used to use rrfprs on MAF cars - 1994-97 Miatas. They worked well enough and did not blow up. You did need to upgrade the fuel pump to prevent it from failing thanks to the higher pressure, but it worked. I think we did about 8 psi on that. Never tried it in a newer, smarter car or with an MZR. Might be good enough for the Challenge.

Remember that an MZR is a Duratec when there's a Ford badge on the grille, so there are lots of potential injector donors. I wouldn't upsize more than 10%. 

I turbocharged a 1991 CRX for the 2018 challenge. Advice:

-Try hard to find a solution using an OE ECU. It'll likely be cheaper, but you may have to use ancient tuning software.

-The ECU itself may need to be repaired, usually just the capacitors

-Past a certain point you'll have to upgrade the injectors and pump, and then rods and pistons.

-Avoid piggy back stuff like rising FPR, missing link, etc. 

-Fuel is MUCH easier to tune than timing. Luckily, renting a dyno doesn't count towards budget. 

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Bottom line, I would start asking this question on the Mazda forums. There is likely a "recipe" out there that has been tried and done dozens of times.