Learn me J bodies

Alright, Well I think I'm going to take a closer look at said freebie this weekend. Simple and dependable are exactly what this driver needs. I also might end up hooning around in it on occasion

I'm going to hijack, then answer. First, the hijack...

I got a free car once too. It was an '86 MR2. I found it one day when I was out writing appraisals on cars. It was at a gas station. Belonged to a kid who had rich parents. Kid brought it in one day thinking it had something really wrong with it. I forget exactly what it was, but it was very minor electrical fix. Kid never came back for the car. Just abandon it. It sat for 18 months. Guy at the gas station told me if I could get the title, I could have it. Found the dad, got the title and drove it away. Had a couple stuck calipers and stuff like that, but I drove that car for a few years.

As for the J body, only thing I can say about them is hope your driver never wrecks it. From appraising cars, I always would cringe when I had to look at a J body. They were usually totaled, and the passenger compartment did not hold up well, especially in a side impact.

ZOO wrote: My only complaint aboiut J-bodies is the seating position and seats. I find them extremely uncomfortable. Too low, and it doesn't feel as if you sit square to the pedals (at least in the ones I've driven).

And I would have to say that of all the cars I've ever owned, by far the most comfortable was my 00 Z24. Those seats were unbelievable.

That's one of the cars I really miss. With a header, 2.5" exh., mild cams, and 56 mm tb, that car surprised a lot of people, me included. I had B&G springs, decent struts, and 225 45 17 rubber. For the POS they are, that was an awesome highway machine.

Blitzed306 wrote: Learn me anything i need to know about all of the 4 banger powered models. Auto trans info as well as stick, this is for a girls first car and I might be able to get a running one for free but I don't know E36 M3 about it.

I have owned an 2002 Cadavalier since 2004 (30k-150k miles). I would rather drive anything else. Brakes are a continual problem because they are weenie and don't like high speed stops, so bank on replacing them early because of pulsation. Front wheel bearings go out every 30-40k and CV axles every 50-60k. I've lost count how many times I've replaced the wheel bearings at this point. If the vehicle has >80k miles on it and has the original suspension I would bet on replacing EVERYTHING (struts, tie rod ends, ball joints, bushings, mounts, etc.) I replaced mine between 90-100k and everything was toast. For the most part the engine and trans are pretty bulletproof. The 2.2 OHV is 1970's tractor engine that somehow lived on until finally being killed off in 2002.

Also how competent can they handle when stock?

Considering many base model j-bodies didn't even come with a front swaybar, I'll consider handle a relative term. Sure I've beaten 911's and C5/C6 vettes autocrossing in my E36 M3box, but they really do handle second to last. Suspension is mushy while somehow being incredibly harsh. The chassis has the torsional rigidity of a wet noodle. There are so many aftermarket braces produced for them it's crazy. I built my own rear swaybar and ended up pulling it off because there were so many squeaks and rattles coming from the chassis it drove me insane. There isn't anything that I know of that is a direct swap upgrade from other GM vehicles. Guys have modded vette brakes and grandam aluminum control arms to fit.

Also note that insurance premiums on the Sunfire/Cav and Cobalt/G5 are the highest of any car on the road (mediocre crash ratings combined with millions sold to teen drivers). Yesterday morning my PS pump started whining like a banshee and its 10*F outside... I'll pray for you.

I remember a first generation Cavalier owned by the ex Mrs.Chebbie... That thing had a clatter that made more noise than she did (Glad to see both of them leave !!)

I played the brake game with Mrs. W's car, and learned the lesson. If you do a $40 brake job, you'll do it every year. I spent real money on quality pads, and drilled/slotted rotors on the 00 car, and never touched them in 4 years.

I slapped a set of $15 pads on the original rotors at 100k, 50k later they are still in good shape but I'm relatively easy on brakes. Next to my Escort it is the most trouble free thing I've owned. I change the oil 2x a year. (It is the worst oil filter I've ever changed) and otherwise only open the hood to add washer fluid.

Other than 1 set of wheel bearings, and the brakes, we didn't change as much as a light bulb in the wife's car in almost 10 years.

SWMBO had a 99 Z24, it was fun as can be and very reliable for over 100k, till she sold it. I'd buy another in a heartbeat!

OTOH, the first car I ever bought on my own was a 90 2.2 ltr pushrod cavalier, and it was a slow, non handling, flaming pile of turd, disguised as a money pit.

the simple J-body lowdown is, they'll run badly longer than many cars will run at all.

apart from not being very safe, they're a perfect first car.

I had a job for a few months that required I spend about 50 hours a week in ex-rental Cavaliers. The one I was assigned to had about 35,000 miles on it, was a 2000 car and this was in 2002. I did not like that job. Four doors, 2.4 liter I think, automatic.

This car was proof that GM did not care about customers and believed that they will buy anything just because it's got a domestic badge on the front. Suspension tuning was curious, I also noted the both harsh yet wallowing action to how they rode and handled. Okay on gas but not that quick. Not a terrible way to get around Dallas but only because it wasn't mine and I got used to driving with a lot of throttle.

I carpooled & co-drove a late nineties Cavalier (base, auto) in a 100 mile round-trip to work every weekday for 6 months. I still cringe when I think about how much I didn't like that car. Everything seemed sub-par from the steering to the engine to the brakes. It didn't even seem like it was in bad shape, but in retrospect it probably could have used some replacement struts. I'm sure the Z24 feel different, but even this decently maintained one pretty much sucked.

edit - this was around 10 yrs ago, so the car was only 2-3 yrs old at the time.

I call J-bodies "Uncle Bens"

... American brand rice.

They are a fine utility. They suck at almost everything they do: handling, acceleration, reliability, etc, but if its free you are only as dumb as the money you put into it to fix it up

I've owned two - an 84 Z24 automatic and an 86 Grand Am Manual. The manual was sloppy and long throw, but reliable behind the 4 banger.

Overall, I would rate the driving experience somewhere between a root canal and a colonoscopy.

Maybe a juggling of parts from various models like the SS or Z whatever might help the handling, although that harshness would be challenging to remove. Get an aftermarket steering wheel in there, the factory hoop felt like it cost nickels to produce. Seats out of almost anything else would be an improvement, with some fab work maybe some Civic seats would work? Better carpet with some sound deadening added would be nice, and while in there do a speaker upgrade since the factory paper disks don't sound so hot.

What the hell am I talking about just get a Civic or a Protege or a Sentra or a 626 or a 944 or an E30 or just about anything else that gets talked about. A Yugo seems like a fun project, what I talked about in my previous paragraph sounds like an exercise in self-hate.

140k on the 02 - did wheel bearings up front one time and for the hell of it, because i got them cheaper than pads on clearance from rockauto.com, i put on new loaded front calipers at the same time as the RF wheel bearing.

have never done the struts, tie rod ends, ball joints, cv axles, have not touched the rear brakes as there is still lining on the original shoes, never done alternator even. i dont know where this "they eat x every y miles" BS comes from.

I raced one for 2 years. I did well with it. Cheap and easy to fix. If you can't fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem. I ran the 2.2 with no problem. I was told to avoid the 2.4. It had more power, but a lot more problems too. One tried racing a Grand Am with the 2.4. He was blowing motors every couple weeks. Parts were dirt cheap, and plentiful. The J body .org site is a great place for info once you wade through the kids that want to "rice out" their Cavaliers/Sunfires. It was better than the Neon I built after. I couldn't believe the difference in the prices of parts even.

As a street car, the Cavalier is practically a disposable car. Cheap appliance vehicle. Pretty reliable. Cheap to fix, but if something major goes, it is cheaper to replace it with another Cavalier. I did blow a motor once in my Cavalier, I bought a whole car for $150 just for the motor, and had a ton of spare parts to boot.

my brother got 110,000 miles on the stock front brakes in the '04 Cavalier he bought brand new.. the good NAPA replacement pads and rotors need to be replaced after 30,000 miles.

i really don't like his car- yeah, his Ecotec has more power than the 2.2 in '97 i had, but the seats are less comfy and the suspension has been rock hard since day 1. he only gets around 30mpg, where my car was up to 39.8 when i sold it.

my Cavvy cost me $400 with a blown head gasket and $300 to replace the trans that blew 3 months after i got it when it only had 190,000 miles on it. other than oil changes every 5000 miles, a $100 fuel pump, and a set of tires for the front, the car cost me nothing other than gas - my brother's car cost him 5 years of payments of $400 a month and now has 140,000 miles on it and is starting to show signs of needing work...

I'm getting A LOT of different views on the J body. Some of you say its cheap and reliable, which is great. then other people claim to rather have a bout of diarrhea

I think they can be reliable cars if treated decently, but most aren't, and they are not very enjoyable places to spend time.

pres589 wrote: I think they can be reliable cars if treated decently.

Every now and then the factory would screw up and send out a reliable one.

HappyJack wrote: I raced one for 2 years. I did well with it.

I didn't realize that was you.

We talked J body tech back in the day, I think on JBO.

Blitzed306 wrote: I'm getting A LOT of different views on the J body. Some of you say its cheap and reliable, which is great. then other people claim to rather have a bout of diarrhea

There really are so many of them on the road, there will be some bad ones.

It's like the 2.4 rod bearing thing. The HUGE majority never have a problem, but if you push it too hard, and don't watch the oil, you'll spin #3. It only seems to happen a lot because so many of them out there.

I drove a 2nd gen Z24 for years with a v6 and slushbox. It had loads of torque but ran out of steam up top but other than eating coil packs and basic wear items it was a pretty decent car. Oh it did eat the trans at 145k but it wasn't babied by any means... If you wanna make one fast take a stop here http://www.v6z24.com/ stay away from jbody.org that forum has more trolls than vwvortex