Learn me Jetta 2.0?

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Curtis, show me on the doll where the Jetta touched you.

accordionfolder said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Curtis, show me on the doll where the Jetta touched you.

The wallet!! (at least his was getting filled by them and not the other way)

Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

accordionfolder said:

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

Lol, already had offers on it for 3k - 45k miles, a/c works fine. Just needs a bunch of little things to be perfect.

If somebody offers me 3k on a $500 car, I'd cash out before they had time to change their mind, no matter how much I love it. 

+1.  Adding another $2K to your play-car budget opens up a number of options. 

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

If I wanted to sell, and maybe I'm being crazy, but I think in the current climate I'd throw it on facebook market place for 4.5k obo and see what happens (45k miles, a/c works, after I fixed all the minor issues). That said I need a backup car and I don't think I can find a better around town beater/parts runner even if I did manage to sell it for 4k that has near the same miles and would be cheaper to run even with expensive-proprietary parts. 

accordionfolder said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Curtis, show me on the doll where the Jetta touched you.

Everywhere but the fun bits.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Lol.

This car also works well for my toad when I go to track days with my tow truck since it's FWD and I'm not too concerned about it - it can chill on my wheel lift no problem.

I've become a huge fan of the Mk4 platform kind of accidentally. My first exposure was when my dad got a 1.8T GLS Golf (with a manual of course) as a cheap car to have while saving for something better -- He'd had a couple B6 A4s before this, so it was definitely a downgrade. But with less mass than the A4, the same basic 170hp 1.8T was heaps more fun, and it had H&R sport springs with Bilstein shocks in it. After familiarizing myself with the platform and perusing the Bentley manual, I decided to acquire a TDI version for my daily driver. I ended up with a Jetta with 313k or so on it, selling it a year later, and then moving onto a Jetta wagon with terminal rustosis which donated it's drivetrain to repair a 2001 Golf (now with 310k mi). I also have a friend who has a very well worn TDI with 340k+ on it, and he got a friend of his to buy and fix a dirt cheap 2.0L. So I only have adjacent experience with the 2.0l drivetrain, but I have heard good things about it, and would like to own one at some point. If I did not do so much highway driving, I would strongly consider a 2.0l manual Jetta or Golf.

The thing about the Mk4 is that it in its most basic, primitive form, it's just a German version of a Civic. It fulfills the same role of being basic transportation, with similarly high reliability goals. It's a nicer car to drive thanks to it's German-ness, but it doesn't have a high number of unique parts. And with the platform being shared across a wide range of body styles and trims, there is a Mk4 for a lot of different use cases, and the common parts are cheap because they apply to so many cars. While there are a lot of drivetrain options, they were also used across a wide range of vehicles, so it's not like Beetles or Jetta wagons got unique engine versions with hard to find expensive parts. All in all it's a really well done piece of engineering to make so many different quality cars out of one platform with such a limited number of unique parts -- and all of that German engineering is now available to you for as low as $500 apparently!

Onto stuff that may actually be useful to you: The 2.0ls do have a timing belt, that's probably the main flaw (in that people don't do it and then act surprised when it fails and bends the valves). The doors have 4 micro switches each in them, if your car is acting "possessed", it's because some of them have failed. Look out for the dome light always being on / not turning on due to one of the doors, or the car randomly deciding to lock itself... These can be fixed, or the entire latch unit can be replaced.

The airbag code is likely a connector under the seat, especially if there's any sign it's been removed (there are side impact bags in the seats). The windshield washer fluid sensor does not like rainX fluid I've been told (it hasn't killed mine yet, but we'll see). It can be shorted out to make the light go off if it bothers you, but I'd try topping up the fluid first. The check engine I have no idea on without knowing the code. The Bentley manuals are truly comprehensive for these cars, unfortunately the price matches that. A full Ross-Tech VAG COM cable is very nice, but not strictly necessary -- they do offer a "lite" version for use with 3rd party cables that should be plenty functional for your needs. I needed mine to set the injection timing on my TDI after doing a timing belt, and could do that plus change the location to one with 24 hour time on the lite version.

Transmission: This should be part of the family tree of VW transmissions going back a decade or so -- from what I understand it should be basically the same unit as the 1.8T or TDI cars, just with different ratios. The big issues are reverse is non synchronized (at least on the 02J in the TDIs), so come to a complete stop before trying it (otherwise you lose reverse, sending pieces into the other gears and the whole box is toast), and it's cable shifted so the bushings on either end of the cables drastically effect shift feel. Dieselgeek makes aftermarket delrin shift bushings (and skid plates). The VW fluid is cheap, and it only takes two quarts (17mm allen key for the drain plug). You're lucky in that the 2.0l appears to have a single mass flywheel, the 1.8T and TDIs came with dual mass flywheels (that commonly get converted back to single mass VR6 clutches).

Brakes: You will have the 280mm rotors up front, which are shared with the TDIs. A good pad and quality rotor will be all you will need with the 2.0l. If you do front brakes, plan on buying new slide pins -- they tend to rust, and new ones are quite cheap. The caliper rides on them with rubber grommets, make sure the cap is on the back of them or they will lose their grease and stop sliding. Mk4 Golfs (and I imagine Jettas) have a quite high static brake bias to the rear end, which is then corrected by the ABS pump. The car will get much angrier about a rear ABS issue than a front one, and new rear brakes will also make a surprisingly large difference in pedal feel. The rear brake calipers require being wound back in (not that uncommon), due to the parking brake mechanism, which is awful: the cables have a low point two thirds of the way along, so water will sit there and the cable will lock up. Additionally, the parking brake mechanism in the calipers can (and will) seize, and is not user serviceable. New calipers are ~$100 each from TRW.

Suspension: Front suspension has these weird rubber donut "mounts" to reduce NVH. They are almost certainly bad. Replacing them with stiffer aftermarket ones really helps the steering feel (and is pretty easy). The lower control arms can be had with stiffer Audi TT bushings pre-installed, and there are poly options available from Powerflex. There are only two bushings in the rear end that can be upgraded, and there are stiffer versions from the Seat Cupra R (and poly ones I think). There are good options for shocks, both Koni and Bilstein have multiple offerings ranging from stock to performance. I like Konis myself. H&R makes lowering springs, and there are also various coilovers available. But be careful going lower! You will likely make things worse by going any lower than stock, as the LCA is almost horizontal to begin with. All lowered Mk4s I've driven felt really weird because the front roll center became too low, along with there being absolutely no camber gain left in the suspension. The best handling mod is supposedly to use Audi TT spindles: these move the lower ball joint down, giving actual camber gain. Supposedly you can use either Audi TT control arms or modify stock VW control arms to work with the TT ball joints. It also bumps you up to the 288mm front rotors and calipers with independent carriers. I have seen some camber plates available, but they're kind of limited in their adjustment due to the strut mount design.

Wheels and tires: The bolt pattern is 5x100, lugs are M14x1.5. Later VWs use a 5x112 bolt pattern, so you're stuck with what was available on the mk4 or aftermarket. The best OE wheel are the BBS RXIIs, in my opinion. They are an actual two piece 16x6.5" wheel and take a 205/55 tire quite well. 17s are also available, but the OE options are all heavy. 225/45/17 are the OE tire size for 17s, which is a good size for sticky tires.

Where to find parts: I shop at a mix of FCPeuro, IDparts, Rockauto, and GermanAutoParts. FCP and IDParts are nearby, so shipping times are short. I like FCP for suspension and brake work, IDParts are diesel specialists, and RockAuto is really hit or miss when factoring in Shipping. Cascade German is also well liked. German Auto Parts are rebuilding their business, the owner had a nasty divorce which caused them to downsize (Which is a shame, I used to be able to pick up parts in person). NAPA has surprisingly many parts if you need something ASAP.

The car looks like a very nice find, hope you have a lot of fun with it!

In reply to MrRobogoat (Forum Supporter) :

Now that is a solid knowledge dump! Thank you very much!

It's a bummer about being an interference engine, I didn't realize that. I wonder if I should age out the belt? It's a 2000 w/ 45k miles. The accessory belt looks fairly awful, I'm assuming the timing belt is as awful under the cover.

68TR250 said:

I had a 2004 2.0 Jetta - 5 speed.  It was great for me.   I put 200K+ miles on it.  Original clutch and the engine was never apart.

I think Volkswagen made their clutches out of compressed granite.  I had a 227k mile Golf and a 385k mile Quantum that still had the original clutches.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

As I'm about to attempt to teach two complete newbies to drive stick that's probably a really good thing....

accordionfolder said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

As I'm about to attempt to teach two complete newbies to drive stick that's probably a really good thing....

I have not had that much luck with VW clutches 

In reply to accordionfolder :

A preventative timing belt change is probably a good idea. If it were a TDI it's pretty straight-forward as idParts sells comprehensive kits.  The Bentley manual has the procedure the the timing belt R&R (I'm looking at it right now). The right side engine mount assembly has to be removed to get to the belt. The engine is usually supported using a cross-bar hanger, although it's common to just use a jack under the oil pan. The fixing bolts are torque-to-yield bolts and replacement is recommended.  Otherwise, the belt R&R looks straight forward - at least compared to a TDI TB R&R, since you don't have the fuel injection pump to deal with. 

To expand on MrRobogoat's comments about the suspension, stiffer springs that raise the car can actually improve handling.  As he mentioned, lowering springs tend to be for looks only unless other mods are done to correct the camber gain and roll-center issues. A vendor in Mass (name currently escapes me) used to sell custom springs for this purpose.  Ground Control has made a custom coil-overs (I knew a GTI owner who had a set) that does the same thing, but I'm certain you will need to call them to get it.  He had a tuned 1.8T running 285/30-18 A6's (front, w/ 245s in the back) in DSP and the car was a rocket. You need the coil-overs to fit those tires as they protrude from the fenders quite a bit. I occasionally get a bug to build a similar car to be a "do it all" toy as the same basic setup should work for autocross, track/hill-climb, and even rallycross.  Maybe when I have some of the current projects off my plate (ha!).

If you plan to work on the car a lot, a Bentley manual is pretty much mandatory.  I have a single volume version from 2003 when I bought my TDI wagon. Years ago my ex- had a bootleg of a VW dealer TIS CD and the Bentley is roughly a print version of that information. It looks like they even pulled the exploded diagrams from the TIS. (FWIW, their BMW manuals were similar as well). My WAG is when dealers stopped using CDs for TIS and switched to a purely online network was when Bentley stopped producing these manuals since it was much harder to get the info. The downside is they often reference special VAG tools. Baum tools is a good source for obscure German car tools that can make life easier, although they are usually on the expensive side.

TDIClub.com is a great resource for even non-TDI information when you need to find fixes for chassis issues.

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to accordionfolder :

To expand on MrRobogoat's comments about the suspension, stiffer springs that raise the car can actually improve handling.  As he mentioned, lowering springs tend to be for looks only unless other mods are done to correct the camber gain and roll-center issues. A vendor in Mass (name currently escapes me) used to sell custom springs for this purpose.  Ground Control has made a custom coil-overs (I knew a GTI owner who had a set) that does the same thing, but I'm certain you will need to call them to get it.  He had a tuned 1.8T running 285/30-18 A6's (front, w/ 245s in the back) in DSP and the car was a rocket. You need the coil-overs to fit those tires as they protrude from the fenders quite a bit. I occasionally get a bug to build a similar car to be a "do it all" toy as the same basic setup should work for autocross, track/hill-climb, and even rallycross.  Maybe when I have some of the current projects off my plate (ha!).

You can also swap in springs from the VR6 wagon to stiffen the front on a budget while maintaining geometry, I bought mine new from idParts and it wasnt expensive. 

In for the build thread.  These were some of the most reliable and trouble free modrrn vw's most of the reat has been said.  Jump on the fb euro/vw groups as a lot of nice oem stuff get's chucked cheap and would be nice upgrades.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

accordionfolder said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Curtis, show me on the doll where the Jetta touched you.

The wallet!! (at least his was getting filled by them and not the other way)

Timing belt, waterpump, and tensioner done! Though when I got in there, my fears where unfounded, it all looked just dandy - I was especially worried about the plastic waterpump, but I wonder if someone did it recently?? Got two keys cut by sidewinder vw keys to replace my one broken key. I also didn't manage to drain enough of the coolant and made a bit of a mess....