Learn me - sporty, AWD, reasonably priced

I'm still pretending to be keeping an eye out for an SUV to replace the CJ7 but I utterly fail at getting excited enough to actually go shopping for one. I guess I really am not an SUV or truck person.

So I figured that if I sold the 'vette and the CJ7, kept the Miata as a nice weather and track/AX jalopy and bought something reasonably sporty with AWD, I might actually reduce the vehicle maintenance headache I currently have (too many vehicles, not enough time) and have something I can drive year round, ideally for $20k or less.

So far, I've come up with a short list of vehicles that match the criteria and I was wondering if (a) I overlooked some and (b) if anybody had first hand experience with any of them:

• Some sort of 911 C4. I like 911s, so does the wife, but my budget pretty much seem to restrict me to 964s. I like the one I looked at a few months ago but I didn't love it like I love my C3.2. One option would be to save or borrow more and get a 996.
• E30 325ix. Finding a good one is a problem, though.
• E46? 330ix. They show up here regularly, not so regularly with a manual transmission. When I asked about them on here before the response was, shall we say, a little tepid.
• Evo VIII or IX. Problem is going to be finding a non-salvage title one that's been unmolested. Plus, black ones for the appropriately sinister look seem to be fairly hard to find. I also don't have a good history with Mitsu products - neither my Evo 3 nor the Talon was exactly a reliable car, but I think this was because both of them had been modded in slightly less than 'quality' fashion. Still liked the Evo 3, though.

With the above ones I would also know where to go to get them worked on if there's something I can't or don't want to do myself.

• I haven't driven a bugeye or later WRX but I'm not a huge fan of Imprezas in general. I've driven pre-bugeye ones though and TBH I prefer the feel of an Evo. One of these would probably be a "I got it cheap enough not to care" buy and they're not that cheap.

What else am I overlooking if I am looking for a sporty AWD car that can seat 4 people if need be and is both reasonably practical (as in 911 practical) and can be had for under 20 large ones. BTW, no Talons, I'd like something that actually works most of the time. Oh, and please no discussion as to if I really need AWD or not. We've been through that before.

I know you swore of Scooby's, but the bugeye to flying vajayjay generations were really good.

Why not a Legacy Turbo? Bigger, more "adult", and less in the ricer radar. Can get in wagon form, too. There's also the Forester Turbo (2.5XT I think was it's moniker). Then you'd have your SUV cake as well.

Also, we were just discussing some late-model Volvo and SAAB's that were damn good in AWD form. V70R (turbo AWD 6-speed wagon!!!) and 9-5 Aero (I think?).

And you like Porsche's. How much are used 1st Gen Cayenne Turbo's going for?

Yuck. I should have mentioned that I don't want a Cayenne. My manager has one (he also likes his Porsches) and I've been in there a couple of times, but it leaves me cold. Plus according to him the gas mileage is about as good as the one I'm getting on my CJ.

If it says Porsche and Turbo on the back I think it would have to be a 930 or 996 .

Which Legacy turbos could you get over here? Just the first generation one? This might be a daft question but I've never knowingly seen one out here.

Actually you make a good point about the ricer radar - that would probably get triggered loudly by an Evo, too.

Javelin wrote: Also, we were just discussing some late-model Volvo and SAAB's that were damn good in AWD form. V70R (turbo AWD 6-speed wagon!!!) and 9-5 Aero (I think?).

As cool as the V70R is, if I didn't "need" a wagon, my Swede of choice would be an S60R. Looks fantastic in a subtle-aggressive way, loads of power, and one of the best interiors I've ever run across.

Damn, now I want one.

What about the super handling all wheel drive Acuras?

You'll need a bigger Suby fan than me to answer super-specifics, but if I'm remembering right, we got the good Legacy Turbo (2.5GT) from like 04-08ish. I know the the turbo/6-speed/wagon format was only 1 year (06?), but the sedans were downright "common". We even had a super-special one with some STi bits and killer shocks that was rare (500 or so?), I can't remember what it was called.

But the Legacy 2.5GT definitely sounds like something you could use.

Javelin wrote: You'll need a bigger Suby fan than me to answer super-specifics, but if I'm remembering right, we got the good Legacy Turbo (2.5GT) from like 04-08ish. I know the the turbo/6-speed/wagon format was only 1 year (06?), but the sedans were downright "common". We even had a super-special one with some STi bits and killer shocks that was rare (500 or so?), I can't remember what it was called. But the Legacy 2.5GT definitely sounds like something you could use.

Spec.B.

It's like an AWD Lotus Elan coupe.

S60R is high up on my lust list, with the man trans of course, which is a little rarer
Matrix XRS + TRD supercharger kit +man trans= something cool and very different, and awd+supercharged.

I think the Matrix w/ awd requires the auto trans.

I just did a 300 mile advanced search from Reno on autotrader and found a couple of S60R manuals as well as MazdaSpeed6's.
There a couple of Dodge Stealths but asking over $10k
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=89503&endYear=2013&driveCode=4WD|AWD&startYear=1981&bodyStyles=CONVERT%2CCOUPE%2CHATCH%2CSEDAN%2CWAGON&transmissionCode=MAN&maxMileage=100000&searchRadius=300&maxPrice=20000&minPrice=6000&firstRecord=1&Log=0

Lots of Audi.
If you really want a challenge, there is a Passat W8 awd manual sedan.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=89503&endYear=2013&driveCode=4WD|AWD&startYear=1981&bodyStyles=CONVERT%2CCOUPE%2CHATCH%2CSEDAN%2CWAGON&firstRecord=51&transmissionCode=MAN&maxMileage=100000&searchRadius=300&maxPrice=20000&minPrice=6000&listingId=318618998&Log=0

Mazdaspeed 6?

Javelin wrote: You'll need a bigger Suby fan than me to answer super-specifics, but if I'm remembering right, we got the good Legacy Turbo (2.5GT) from like 04-08ish. I know the the turbo/6-speed/wagon format was only 1 year (06?), but the sedans were downright "common". We even had a super-special one with some STi bits and killer shocks that was rare (500 or so?), I can't remember what it was called. But the Legacy 2.5GT definitely sounds like something you could use.

the legacy GT (turbo) wagon of that generation was only available one year with the 5-speed, and that was 2005. LGT sedans were available with the 5-speed in 05 and 06 only, iirc. there was a spec. b model that had some extras, but i'm not sure if they came with the 5 or 6 speed.

if you get one of the legacy GTs, be sure to look for one with the winter weather package, which will be easy to spot as they had a heated wiper park area and heated seats, but the real reason you want it is that was the only way to get a rear limited slip in the legacy of that vintage.

from wiki about the spec B:

The high-performance Subaru Legacy 2.5GT spec.B arrived as a limited edition model with only 500 units made for the 2006 model year in America. The only color available was Titanium Silver Metallic with Brick Red leather interior. It featured a 6-disc CD player with MP3, a navigation system, 8-way power driver's seat, 4-way passenger seat, and aluminum look trim on the interior with the production number (out of 500) behind the shifter. It had Bilstein shock absorbers, 18 inch alloy wheels with summer performance tires for better handling. It became a regular model starting in 2007 through 2009. In 2007 the only color option was Dark Grey Metallic, with black leather seats with blue alcantra inserts, with added memory seats. More color options were added for the 2008 and 2009 models. Additions on the 2007+ models also included a 6-speed manual transmission with a Torsen R180 rear differential from the STI, Subaru Intelligent Drive (SI-Drive) with three modes: Intelligent, Sport, and Sport Sharp, and satellite radio with AUX inputs for the stereo

unfortunately, the folding rear seat in the sedan didn't make an appearance until 07, when the only way to get three pedals it appears was via the spec. b sedan-only version.

if you want something a little more SUV-like (doubtful), i believe that the outback wagon was available with the turbo motor and 5 speed in 05 and 06. i test drove an 06 outback XT, while they had the turbo motor, they kept the standard outback's smaller brakes (legacy GTs had larger brakes that would swap over) which made the brakes feel a bit mushy IMHO.

jrw1621 wrote: If you really want a challenge, there is a Passat W8 awd manual sedan. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=89503&endYear=2013&driveCode=4WD|AWD&startYear=1981&bodyStyles=CONVERT%2CCOUPE%2CHATCH%2CSEDAN%2CWAGON&firstRecord=51&transmissionCode=MAN&maxMileage=100000&searchRadius=300&maxPrice=20000&minPrice=6000&listingId=318618998&Log=0

I didn't realize such a beast existed. That's gotta be about as rare as the W12 Phaeton I saw last month in Versailles, MO.

Huh. The more I hear about how rare the turbo/manual "grown up" Scooby's are, the more inclined I am to just start saying "Mazdaspeed6" instead.

So Tim, MS6 is your answer. (Or S60R)

In reply to m4ff3w:

What the heck is that?

Re Audis - I'm not a big fan of them even though I did like the A8 I had a few years back. What concerns me about them is that they seem to have a reputation for breaking things a few minutes after they're out of warranty, plus there isn't much in the way of specialists out who work on them.

MS6, great car poor resale, win for you.... though S60R is droolworthy...

I'll throw a vote in for a Mazdaspeed 6. Second is the S60R. I put MS6 first because this is GRM and I believe parts are cheaper. Well I know suspension parts are cheaper. I can only guess that driveline parts cost less as well. Third vote would be for the Saabaru. I pick that over the LGT because I think it looks better, they have a similar quality interior, and you can get a fairly low mileage/well maintained wagon for about 12K instead of the insane money LGT wagons are going for.

BoxheadTim wrote: What the heck *is* that?

1991 Isuzu Impulse RS 1.6L turbo AWD

Similar power/weight to a Subaru Impreza 2.5RS but in a smaller package.

I would build one off a wagonback with the 92-93 Storm GSi front end.

Or a four door (Stylus RS).

Evo IX with Bilsteins and Swift Spec Rs. Best street sedan I have ever driven, by a long way, including the RWD ones.

They are at the STi price point and are cheap to fix and amazingly reliable. The back seat is HUGE compared to the WRX. I'm 6'0" 220lbs, and I could sit comfortably front or rear without adjusting the seat. World beating handling, all weather dominance, and cheap horsepower... What else do you want?

Throw me in the ms6 hat as well. Because it was the wrong car for the wrong demographic- it tried to be more than what it was, and was too much for the Evo camp. Recent fuel developments have made the DISI absolutely SCARY (saw a car dyno just shy of 400whp, 500+ft/lbs on 50/50 e85 mix, tuning, fuel pump internals, and a 50 shot. On the stock k04). They've fairly well bottomed out around here, but it's probably one of the best cars for the money in this camp right now. Plus they sound AMAZING with a good exhaust.

J308 wrote: Evo IX with Bilsteins and Swift Spec Rs. Best street sedan I have ever driven, by a long way, including the RWD ones. They are at the STi price point and are cheap to fix and amazingly reliable. The back seat is HUGE compared to the WRX. I'm 6'0" 220lbs, and I could sit comfortably front or rear without adjusting the seat. World beating handling, all weather dominance, and cheap horsepower... What else do you want?

Is it even possible to find one that hasn't been held down and had the snot beat out of it? Every one I've looked at under the 20k price point was iffy at best.

Options:

05 Legacy Outback Wagon 2.5XT It has the turbo + manual + AWD + wagon + raised suspension = awesome!

02 BMW 330xi Sport Pack in Black/Black gives you inline-6 + manual + AWD.

06 Mazdaspeed6 gives you the killer MS3 motor + trans + AWD in an actual good-looking Mazda!

05 Legacy GT gives you the turbo Scooby power + manual in the sedan version.

04 Volvo S60R is pure awesomeness! 5-cylinder turbo + manual + AWD in a sinister black body.

91 911 (964) C4 Targa would give you a serious case of the old, ugly, air-cooled Porsche-ness you so desire for more $$$ than all of the above cars...

Here's one out of left field.

Saab Turbo X. If Darth Vader was Swedish...

I actually wouldn't mind the 964 if it wasn't a Targa...