Good Day!
I have a 1998 GM V6 T5 WC from a 3800 powered Camaro.
It is currently in my 2200# rx7 behind a 3400 V6.
I am looking for some upgrades that are cheap (this is a chumpcar). 3rd gear is apparently a known weak point.
Also, it appears the trans has a bad shift mechanism and 5th gear and reverse are currently not working in the gearbox.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Rob R.
Check the bushings in the shifter. Know weak spot and cause of dropped gears.
5th and reverse are on the same shift shaft. Might be a broken fork.
3rd will last provided you don't do a high rpm missed shift while side stepping the clutch/full throttle shift.
A performance shifter with positive stops prevents the shift forks from stopping your shifter and getting bent. Only helps if you have a gorilla shift operator.
Ranger50 wrote: 5th and reverse are on the same shift shaft. Might be a broken fork. 3rd will last provided you don't do a high rpm missed shift while side stepping the clutch/full throttle shift.
We do not do that.... On purpose....
Is one of those pro 5.0 shifters a good investment? Do they actually help the trans survive (supposedly they make the gear engagement more positive.).
Thanks!
Rob R.
It's installed in a lighter car, with a smaller engine...does it really need upgrades? It would seem it's under less stress than it was designed for.
The one thing you can do is learn how to open up the trans. It's easy if you follow the "YouTube" videos. Getting the correct preload on the counter shaft bearing and then the main shaft bearing will go a long way to keeping your trans together. I have taken a few T5's apart, some to rebuild, some to junk after opening them up, and a few have only needed bearings. The syncros don't wear out that fast but if the bearings get sloppy it won't shift clean and you get grinding. I bought a T5 for $100 that only needed bearings (About $100) and sold it for $450.
Your problem is most likely a shifter issue. Your going to have to open up the trans to fix. An aftermarket shifter goes a long way to keeping a T5 going. The positive stops they have keeps you from "over shifting" the trans and that's not good. Use good quality ATF in the trans. So many people don't read and put in gear lube which does the WC syncros no good. \
As far as 3 rd gear being weak. It isn't really. It is the most likely gear to "blow up" under hard use. Ask me how I know? I had a 1993 Cobra that I raced and that was the gear that failed, after 7-8 years of track use. A new counter shaft and 3rd gear and I was back in business. Your application is in no way pushing the limits of your T5.
This is all good news.
I talked to a local trans shop. They said they could diagnose it for free if I brought it in to them. I will do that and determine where to go from there.
Thanks everybody!
There is an extra support you can get for the front of counter shaft (i think) that helps with shock loads etc. Its a cheap part but you have to take apart the trans to install it.
Hey man iv rebuilt the T5 WC in my FC, also I think I saw this car on CL in Raleigh for a while.
I have a DVD that shows how to rebuild one i will let you have it if you want it. It was $300 for parts to full rebuild mine and I did everything but I needed a press to pull some of the bearing off.
I really like my aftermarket shifter because i can set the max shift points aka I can slam it into gear as hard as I want to and it wont hurt the trans.
The shift forks in a T-5 are aluminum, so they don't bend far. They break.
Also, the reason 3rd gear breaks isn't so much because it's weak, it's mostly because it's as far as it can be away from a case wall (and a bearing). 93 Cobras, 94-95 Mustangs, and T-5Zs had a tapered roller pocket bearing (instead of loose rollers and a Torrington), which allows for more preload, and keeps 3rd on the main shaft from getting away from the countershaft. If the 3rd gears get away from each other too far, the teeth snap off (ask me how I know).
snailmont5oh wrote: The shift forks in a T-5 are aluminum, so they don't bend far. They break. Also, the reason 3rd gear breaks isn't so much because it's weak, it's mostly because it's as far as it can be away from a case wall (and a bearing). 93 Cobras, 94-95 Mustangs, and T-5Zs had a tapered roller pocket bearing (instead of loose rollers and a Torrington), which allows for more preload, and keeps 3rd on the main shaft from getting away from the countershaft. If the 3rd gears get away from each other too far, the teeth snap off (ask me how I know).
IF you read my first post you'll see that when I broke 3rd gear is was on a "Cobra Pocket Bearing" style T5. So while they are stronger, theyare not bulletproof.
Choose your clutch wisely, with the proper amount of clutch in front of your T5 it will be fine. In most cases it's an inertia induced torque spike that kills a T5, not the actual torque that the engine was making. If you go overkill and install a clutch in front of your T5 that holds 500 ft/lbs, it will be possible for the transmission's input shaft to see 500 ft/lbs even if the engine itself only makes 300 ft/lbs.
Make sure the T5's tapered bearings are shimmed up slightly tighter than factory spec, also add a countershaft bearing support plate to keep it's bearings snug. Short of changing the gearset and adding a good shifter, there's not much else you can really do to "beef up" your T5. If you instead use just enough clutch to handle 350 ft/lbs or so, clutch dump launches will be possible even on a T5 with 6cyl ratios.
If you already have a clutch with excess capacity and don't want to hurt the transmission or drivetrain, you can buffer the clutch with a device like my ClutchTamer (LINK). I've got many NMRA customers using it with T5's at around 500rwhp, one using a way overkill RAM PowerGrip HD clutch behind a turbo 2.3 that's running 10.20@134 at 2985lbs, leaving at 6400 and getting 1.35 60's. My personal RX-7 still uses the original ClutchTamer I made years ago from a hardware store VH440 hydraulic screen door closer, something similar could make for a very Chumpcar friendly T5 insurance policy.
I'm climbing the learning curve with my first T5 right now. I had to convert it to hydraulic shift, but I came up with a tidy solution for that.
I've been having trouble with 5-3 downshifts and 4-3 downshifts on corner entry. Many times I wind up in 5, or stranded between 3 and 5 trying to figure out whether I'm just pressing against the spring-ball detents, or I'm about to grind a gear.
The Foxbody crowd has been helping me out and they have recommended an MGW, which I'm going to get. I'm not loving the Econoshift I have now.
If there are any additional words from the voices of experience, I would love to hear them.
weedburner wrote: Choose your clutch wisely, with the proper amount of clutch in front of your T5 it will be fine. In most cases it's an inertia induced torque spike that kills a T5, not the actual torque that the engine was making. If you go overkill and install a clutch in front of your T5 that holds 500 ft/lbs, it will be possible for the transmission's input shaft to see 500 ft/lbs even if the engine itself only makes 300 ft/lbs. Make sure the T5's tapered bearings are shimmed up slightly tighter than factory spec, also add a countershaft bearing support plate to keep it's bearings snug. Short of changing the gearset and adding a good shifter, there's not much else you can really do to "beef up" your T5. If you instead use just enough clutch to handle 350 ft/lbs or so, clutch dump launches will be possible even on a T5 with 6cyl ratios. If you already have a clutch with excess capacity and don't want to hurt the transmission or drivetrain, you can buffer the clutch with a device like my ClutchTamer (LINK). I've got many NMRA customers using it with T5's at around 500rwhp, one using a way overkill RAM PowerGrip HD clutch behind a turbo 2.3 that's running 10.20@134 at 2985lbs, leaving at 6400 and getting 1.35 60's. My personal RX-7 still uses the original ClutchTamer I made years ago from a hardware store VH440 hydraulic screen door closer, something similar could make for a very Chumpcar friendly T5 insurance policy.
Stock style excedy clutch for a 2.2 S10... Pretty sure that I am NOT overclutched...
JBasham wrote: I'm climbing the learning curve with my first T5 right now. I had to convert it to hydraulic shift, but I came up with a tidy solution for that. I've been having trouble with 5-3 downshifts and 4-3 downshifts on corner entry. Many times I wind up in 5, or stranded between 3 and 5 trying to figure out whether I'm just pressing against the spring-ball detents, or I'm about to grind a gear. The Foxbody crowd has been helping me out and they have recommended an MGW, which I'm going to get. I'm not loving the Econoshift I have now. If there are any additional words from the voices of experience, I would love to hear them.
JBasham wrote: I'm climbing the learning curve with my first T5 right now. I had to convert it to hydraulic shift, but I came up with a tidy solution for that. I've been having trouble with 5-3 downshifts and 4-3 downshifts on corner entry. Many times I wind up in 5, or stranded between 3 and 5 trying to figure out whether I'm just pressing against the spring-ball detents, or I'm about to grind a gear. The Foxbody crowd has been helping me out and they have recommended an MGW, which I'm going to get. I'm not loving the Econoshift I have now. If there are any additional words from the voices of experience, I would love to hear them.
FYI on hydro TO bearings. I have mostly done Ford T5s but did a couple of Chevy Camaro V6 T5s lately and they use hydro TO bearings. By just swapping the input shaft bearing/seal retainer from one of these trans you can convert a Ford T5 to a hydro TO bearing. I have seen these retainers both new and used on the "net" at various outlets and at various prices so I won't quote any here.
jimbbski wrote:snailmont5oh wrote: The shift forks in a T-5 are aluminum, so they don't bend far. They break. Also, the reason 3rd gear breaks isn't so much because it's weak, it's mostly because it's as far as it can be away from a case wall (and a bearing). 93 Cobras, 94-95 Mustangs, and T-5Zs had a tapered roller pocket bearing (instead of loose rollers and a Torrington), which allows for more preload, and keeps 3rd on the main shaft from getting away from the countershaft. If the 3rd gears get away from each other too far, the teeth snap off (ask me how I know).IF you read my first post you'll see that when I broke 3rd gear is was on a "Cobra Pocket Bearing" style T5. So while they are stronger, theyare not bulletproof.
Oh, I read your post. I also never said, or even really implied, that they were bulletproof. I said that the tapered pocket bearing allowed for more preload, which it does. After 7 or 8 years of road racing, I'm sure your bearing clearances had opened up a little. I'd bet a careful examination of the pieces would have revealed a wear pattern far from ideal.
I second the idea of shimming it up tight, especially if you have the tapered roller pocket. If you don't have that, you may be able to upgrade to it with proper parts selection and a little machine work. I forget at the moment exactly which front wheel outer bearing set they used for it.
The T5 in the stock '98 Camaro RS with ~67k miles I bought quite a while back for an autocross/track car was horrible to shift, way too easy to miss going into 3rd gear and it flopped around worse than any FWD shifter I ever had. Fresh ATF and changing out to a Hurst Competition + shifter fixed it... absolutely loved that shifter!
That stock shifting mechanism was absolute garbage, have never experienced a worse shifter mechanism than the one on that T5...
The pocket bearing is either an A1 or A2 tapered roller bearing. I"ve looked into this as I have a Mustang T5 in pieces with a bad main shaft. The front end is pitted where the loose roller bearings in the input shaft ride on. I've also read where you can machine this part down and press on a sleeve to renew that part of the shaft.
I've already machined an input shaft thrust bearing surface when the thrust bearing destroyed itself due to low trans fluid. I just added another thrust washer to take up the clearance.
JBasham wrote: I'm climbing the learning curve with my first T5 right now. I had to convert it to hydraulic shift, but I came up with a tidy solution for that.
Hydraulic shift? I'd like to see/hear more about that. 
I assume that was supposed to mean hydraulic throw out bearing.
If not, I wanna know more too!
Skervey wrote: ...I think I saw this car on CL in Raleigh for a while.
I kinda doubt it. It was our track day car for a few years and was then turned into our racecar about 4 years ago.
If got the engine and trans installed over the last 3 months. If there is another 3400 V6 swapped RX7, Id love to hear about it!
I used a Miata slave cylinder, and then whipped up a stout mounting bracket to put it at the right location behind the clutch fork. Added a homebrew adjustable push-rod with a rod end, and whittled a pivot pin bracket out of box tube. That bolts to the clutch fork, through the hole drilled by Ford for the clutch cable. Only gives about an inch or so of fork travel, but that's all it takes. Master cylinder is the stock part for an E36. Works great.
Here is a set of photos. I will go back soon and update with part numbers and stuff.
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