Learn Me: VW Type 4 Motors

So my '82 VW Vanagon's motor is on its last legs (cyl 4 is 37 psi...which is darkly impressive for a running 4 banger) and I'm looking for spare motor to rebuild while i drive this one into the ground.  I know the biggest difference is the hydraulic v solid lifters, but did much else change over the production run? 

Local Craigslist has a GW case for sale, and I think thats a 1.8L T2 motor.  Any pitfalls there?  I was planning to rebuild it for a torquier than stock replacement for my 4k lb loaf of wonderbread.

To get 150 hp out of one of those engines, you will need to take it out to 2.2 liters and raise compression to 10.5:1, which will require E85. 

id be happy with just 100? i can get by on 70hp, but sometimes i just want a little more scoot.

How much money do you want to spend?  Raby used to have a build kit for like $5000, try looking at the type IV store, probably a lot more than $5K now

In reply to Toebra :

I'm more wondering about internal case changes, head differences, that kind of thing?

The case on CL needs cylinders and id like more than 1.8L to move a lumbering van anyway.  Not trying to break the bank on another racing type 4 motor, but i have a couple bucks so id like to go highway speeds?

I think what Rees is looking for is the (relatively) cheap and easy way to reliable daily driver torque as much as power. I assume she’s looking for X big bore kit (2.2l?) with relatively little else other than a mild cam and whatever is needed to keep it farting along happily for many years to come. 

Adrian_Thompson said:

I think what Rees is looking for is the (relatively) cheap and easy way to reliable daily driver torque as much as power. I assume she’s looking for X big bore kit (2.2l?) with relatively little else other than a mild cam and whatever is needed to keep it farting along happily for many years to come. 

Adrian is correct.  When it comes to torque for moving a 4k-lb "loaf of wonderbread", there truly is "no replacement for displacement"

Maybe go check out 914 World a lot of info there.  I seem to remember you need some machine shop work to if you go up in displacement to make the barrels fit right.   Go too big and it will not live that long.  You can also increase the stroke, which might be the ticket for you, but again, machine shops can get expensive.

As is the case with most motors, the power is in the heads.  Type IV heads tend to drop valve seats and develop cracks.  The 2.0 Porsche heads breathe WAY better than the VW ones on the 1.7/1.8 in the 914, or any of the heads from a bus/vanagon. 

You can spend a lot of money on heads, I just saw some that were just shy of $4000 that gave me lustful thoughts.  I blame you guys for making me look at them, you farging bastages

How expensive are the Subie motor swap kits?

A buddy of mine is working on a type 4 now so I lent him my dynomation 6  license to play with and its saying 175 hp.    I think the plan is 44/38 valves with mild (at least by my standards ;) ) porting, decent cam, 9:1 pistons.  on these engine more head work+ more hp but at the 150-175 mark that means cutting and welding to fix the really REALLY bad exhaust port.  175 is not a bad number though.  That's with the 2247 kit I'm pretty sure (96 bore/ 78 stroke....which is the same stroke as my frankenferrari so it must be right right? :)...but I'm only 86mm bore so 96 is clearly wrong 

I'm not a VW guy but i love reading through all of the different combos in this forum ...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

Beware of high horsepower type 4s, big ports and valves make power at high revs and that might not be the right match for a van.  In my opinion if you want 175 HP put a suby motor in.  At least that way if the motor blows up next time the job will be much cheaper.

You need torque at low revs and the ability to control head temps, and oil temps.  I would advise a 2 liter engine to start, the longer stroke means more torque.  Don't go beyond 96 mm in bore or the head sealing area gets small and heat will cause more problems.  Compression ratio depends on what octane gas you want to run.  EFI is a must, you can control air fuel ratios that way.  Put in a big oil cooler with a fan or venting to air flow.  Bigger oil pump, and a gauge to monitor temps.  Speaking of temps, head temp is a must.  Not sure of these numbers as it has been a while but 350 should be normal cruising, 375 means slow down, 400 means pull over, 425 means start shoppong for new heads.

Many years ago a buddy had a westy van and wanted to pull his hobie 16 with it to go to regattas.  First trip he blew a rod thru the block.  We put another motor in and installed the head temp gage.  He went a few years on a junkyard motor that way.

Reese, Reese, come on girl, spill the beans, what's the latest update......with pics please.

Alrighty! The CL case was a AW serial number meaning 1.8L from a 70s T2.  I bought it after i eyeballed a few parts i needed for other cars anyway and the crank spins by hand, a nice deal at $280 when heads are $500 online and it had bits i couldnt find online at all.

The idea of a displacement bump and a cam for low end grunt is pretty much the goal.  This isnt a racing van (thats the 914 engine on the floor getting prepped for the squareback), its just to scoot along and do some camping.  There is huge variety of displacements available from kits and i dont mind getting some machine work done, but durability over power here for sure.  Im not sure how big is too big? But the note on the 1.8L heads being basically a cocktail straw is helpful!

I know subaru swaps are popular for this application, but i have an entirely irrational distaste for radiators and this is an aircooled vanagon so i dont feel like grafting in the super long coolant system to the front of the van like 15 feet away.

Just in case you need more research.

Shoptalkforums.com

As someone who spent several thousand dollars rebuilding their 72 transporters type 4 a few years ago, I also say subie, depending on what you are doing with the van...

I know your opposed to it, and I was too, hence still having a type 4.

First off, the rebuild nickel and dimed me way past my initial budget for the engine.  By the end of it, it felt like every single little part got machined or replaced.  Thousands of dollars were spent, and that was for a relatively stock 1.7l rebuild.

It's been a few years, but every time I drive it, there is some level of anxiety about that engine.  Moreso than any other engine I've rebuilt or swapped.  I have a head temp guage and oil guages, and watch them constantly.  I stress at every hill or onramp, just waiting for it to inevitably pop or fail.

At the end of it, I could have spent less money, had a more reliable Subaru engine, and feel less stressed about driving it.

Even if the initial costs are similar, the long term cost and enjoyment of a Subaru swap just seem to make more sense .  If a Subaru swapped engine needs service or fails, I can fix it with readily available parts from a FLAPS or grab one from a junkyard and have it in by the end of the weekend.   If my type 4 needs service, there is no quick parts availability, and if it fails, nearly all of the money I put into it is gone, and I'm starting the while process over again before it goes back in the bus.  With my schedule, that would be weeks at a minum, but likely months.

I appreciate that by bus is oem+ with minimal mods, but I can't help but think I would appreciate the bus more if I could enjoy using it more.

In reply to andy_b :

Thanks for sharing your experiance! i rode in a subie swapped vanagon and was impressed with how OEM it felt, so thats a lot of interesting points.