Learn me winter tires

Knurled wrote:

Leafy wrote: I ran blizzaks on the wrx got 3 years out of them, still ton of tread left but they dont feel like cheater mode anymore, must have run out of the snow tire rubber and into the harder core. Have to order Nokains for this year.

After that long, the tires will be heat cycled out and not as grippy. The first winter, the tires are awesome. The second winter, they're so-so. Third winter, you're thinking WTF these used to be good! My procedure anymore is new tires in November, leave 'em on in the summer. They age out rapidly anyway, may as well get some miles out of them before scrapping.

That wasnt quite what I had, 1st winter, excelent, 2nd winter, no change. 3rd winter was just as excellent until one storm mid winter where they just didnt work amazing anymore. It was like flipping a switch.

Knurled wrote:

mndsm wrote: Unless you go nokian. Hakks will take some blizz lunch money and make em their bitch.

Only if you have studs... Nordic tires are intended to be studded, Japanese tires tend not to be.

Maybe on a skating rink, but in realistic icy road conditions (hardpack snow and partially glassed over blacktop), the Nordic tires(without studs) still have a lot of grip, and you get a lot more than 2 seasons from them. Blizzak is a one trick pony from everything I've heard/read of them, magic ice performance, for a winter or two, then nothing remarkable.

I know a guy who did last winter ok in Grand Rapids with a set on 8 year old hakks, no studs, worn down to 4/32, mounted on a open diff 190e with a 3.0 swap.

In our Street Legal class, The WS Blizzak proved superior to the Haks. We do have a studded class that runs only the Hak 7&8. They still lose studs.

I have a set of WS60's that are about 6 yrs. old, going on 7. They still have lots of tread and durometer like new. I'm guessing they have 20K miles on them. I store them like I used too with my race tires. Low miles is because they were used strictly for ice racing the first two years. My Fiesta is not hard on them either. They worked great last winter.

I know the WS60s are a dual compound tire (sticky stuff on the outside, hard stuff a little further down). Thats why I got the experience from them that I did.

curtis73 wrote: My winter car was a 96 Impala SS with Blizzaks. Many winters I never put the Blizzaks on, I kept my 285mm wide summer-only rubber on all winter.

Phew! For a minute I thought we were going to have the first snow tire thread in the history of the internet where NOBODY tells us how they do just fine in (Michigan/Canada/etc) all winter in a high-power RWD car with bald summer tires on it.

Knurled wrote: All cars have four wheel brakes and two wheel steering. Get winter tires.

Some cars have 4 wheel steering, kinda gimicky but still there

gunner wrote: I recommend general altimax arctic if they have them in your size.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I'm a fan of the General Altimax Artic, its a exact copy (Continental owns both) of a Gislaved snow tire, a Swedish Nokian competitor. Except they dont cost anywhere near Nokian money.

These, skip the studs.

/thread

irish44j wrote:

curtis73 wrote: My winter car was a 96 Impala SS with Blizzaks. Many winters I never put the Blizzaks on, I kept my 285mm wide summer-only rubber on all winter.

Phew! For a minute I thought we were going to have the first snow tire thread in the history of the internet where NOBODY tells us how they do just fine in (Michigan/Canada/etc) all winter in a high-power RWD car with bald summer tires on it.

This made me laugh a LOT.

curtis73 wrote:

irish44j wrote:

curtis73 wrote: My winter car was a 96 Impala SS with Blizzaks. Many winters I never put the Blizzaks on, I kept my 285mm wide summer-only rubber on all winter.

Phew! For a minute I thought we were going to have the first snow tire thread in the history of the internet where NOBODY tells us how they do just fine in (Michigan/Canada/etc) all winter in a high-power RWD car with bald summer tires on it.

This made me laugh a LOT.

Well, the other popular story is 2wd pickup, open dif, no weight in the bed, bald tires crossing the continental divide is the worst snow storm in history...

neon4891 wrote:

Well, the other popular story is 2wd pickup, open dif, no weight in the bed, bald tires crossing the continental divide is the worst snow storm in history...

Funny you should mention that. When I was 17, I lived with my parents in the Laurel Highlands area of Pennsylvania, near the town of Cresson, and commuted to the Altoona Campus of Penn State. Altoona is about 800 feet below Cresson and 25 or so miles away, and, weather wise, they are two different worlds. I was driving a '70 F-100 2wd (open diff) 302 3-speed with the first set of all season tires that I had ever seen, the venerable Dayton Quadra. They had been on the truck for years by the time I got my hands on it, and they were worn to the point that I swapped the front and rear tires because the tires that were on the front would actually make a little bit of a discernible tread print in the snow, so I put those on the rear, figuring that that's where the traction should be to help with the going. We had a fair amount of snow that winter, with what seemed like weekly storms in the 6 to 12 inch range, and I never really had a problem getting where I wanted to go. I'm sure I had rally driver skill and all that, but I'm actually still convinced to this day that the truck was possessed by some sort of traction fairy that made sure that it stayed on the road. Seriously. That truck went places that it had no right to, stopped when it shouldn't have, and always made the turn. It was weird.

neon4891 wrote: Well, the other popular story is 2wd pickup, open dif, no weight in the bed, bald tires crossing the continental divide is the worst snow storm in history...

Open diff makes it easier, not harder, to drive.

You should've seen the first time I tried driving my first limited-slip equipped RX-7 in the snow. I got stuck in a gas station. The car would move, but it would not turn. I had to make a 90 degree turn from the pump islands to the exit, but the car would just crab sideways instead of turning. Funny in hindsight but frustrating to make a 23 point turn in a cramped parking lot.

Several years ago, I got caught out in a freak early snowstorm. Decided to go for limping the car gingerly to where my winter car was stored. Nope. Any application of throttle would result in the back of the car slamming down the crest of the road until I bounced off the curb. Made my way to a parking lot and just called for a tow truck, $65 well spent IMO.

Never ever had a problem with an open diff, if you spin a tire you usually only spin ONE so you still have directional stability.

So is there a difference between an ice and snow tire like Blizzaks and "studdable" winter tire without studs like, say, Altimax Arctics? (besides the fact that one has the option to be fitted with studs)

I've run the low buck Hankook Ice Bear and thought they were exceptional. I was running a 16 and they were half the cost of the others...

After driving my Contour one winter with out snows. I got around. I figure my winter driving experience with FWD helped. But, never again.

Yes, limited slips can be a real pain on the slippery stuff. When ever it got slippery, I had to put my KJ into 4WD to keep it going straight.

Question, the car has 205/55/16 factory sized tires on it now. would it rub if I put 205/60/16 on it? I dont think it would and tires seem to be marginally cheaper in the slightly larger size than the factory.

Almost certainly not gonna rub, unless your car is heavily lowered. Hell, you could probably run a 205/65/16 without rubbing.

I run winter tires on the e30 that are almost a full inch taller than stock, and the car is lowered, and doesn't even come close to rubbing. Different car, but most manufacturers leave quite a bit of leeway in stock form.

I also run larger diameter than stock on the WRX with no rubbing, and it is lowered almost 2"

BlueInGreen44 wrote: So is there a difference between an ice and snow tire like Blizzaks and "studdable" winter tire without studs like, say, Altimax Arctics? (besides the fact that one has the option to be fitted with studs)

Certainly the Generals would probably bite a bit better with sipes added to the places reserved for studs, but they still work better than many unstuddable non-performance winter tires. I've had 175/70R14 Dunlop Graspic DS-2, 185/65R14 Michelin X-Ice, and now 185/60R15 Generals on my Saturns. All used in ice trials and general winter driving. The Michelins clearly had the least winter grip, but handled dry roads very well. The Dunlops felt awful but had more grip. The Generals handle dry roads quite well and have better grip than either.

Also love the Continental ExtremeWinterContacts on my minivan. It is nice that they asymmetric--I do a 5 tire rotation with them. They also worked well on the ice.

I say Blizzaks freakin' rule, but the past five winters had me either on Altimaxes or Nordfrosts because, while not the ultimate, they are probably the best bang for the buck. Say 90% of the performance for much less than 90% the cost.

So what I am hearing is that Hakks are like the lambo of the snow tire world, blizzacks are like the porsche, and altimaxes are like the E36 M3 because most bang for least monies

Its more like Hakks are the McLaren, blizzacks are like BMW, and altimaxes are like EF civics.

By that analogy, the Altimax would be more like a used Noble or Koenigsegg.

I'm thinking a set of Altimax for my S2000. I live in Milwaukee, so moderate snowfall, plowed flat roads, and a good amount of dry/cold driving. Anyone have any suggestions or better alternatives?

I think I'll be getting Altimax for the Escort to replace the almost bald blizzaks I used last winter. A set in my size is about $100 cheaper than Blizzaks on Tirerack. More with the rebate.

The difference in winter driving on all seasons or dedicated winter tire is performance.

Thousands of people drive all winter on AS's. They manage.

I had a good example during last winters ice storm in VT.

On I 89, there was line of cars in the left lane all doing about 40 mph. Driving my Fiesta on Blizzaks, I looked over at the left lane, not sure how the traction would be. I tried it, stuck like glue. Upped my speed to 60 in full control.

Of course that is just one of the advantages. Steering and braking come to mind.

@iceracer: You are apparently an idiot, an shiny happy person, and will end up in a ditch somewhere. At least, that's what everybody says about me when I go blowing by 20-30 MPH faster than they are going in their conga line.