Learn me Z3's?

DukeOfUndersteer wrote: Z3 M Roadster is one of the scariest cars i have ever driven.

In a good way or bad?

In reply to bravenrace:

Both

The clown shoe aka coupe will dance and slide with an awkward grace that is good and bad. As GSP stated, it an E30 with bigger brake and tire package with E36 steering geometry.

11110000 wrote: 1.9L Z3 can haz supercharger?

If you are talking about the Downing Atlanta, then no, you can not haz.

They have been out of production for years.

Not to mention by the time you get everything going, you'll still end up with less power than a lightly modded S52.

The 1.9 Z3s are pretty much inferior to a similar priced Miata in every way. I really wanted to get a Z3. My wife really wanted me to get a Z3. The Miata's driving experience and simple quality was so much better than that of a Z3 that we couldn't rationalize buying a Z3.

I'll vote for BMWs being a lot more troublesome and expensive to maintain than a Miata. And BMW power tops are atrocious. But I still might get a Z3 in the future. I can't help it. I just love BMWs. But it will have to be a I6 with a pile of maintenance records.

for people worried about "broken" windows.. they are an easy fix with about $10 USD in parts.

E30 is also an answer...

have you sat in the Z3 yet?

Have you considered a third generation MR2? They have no storage space and the power is Miata-ish, but I think they're a better drive and they're comfy.

^A GRM article awhile back indicated that very thing.

But a turbo MR2 with some proper mods and sticky tires would be a hoot!

lizard wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote: Have you considered a third generation MR2? They have no storage space and the power is Miata-ish, but I think they're a better drive and they're comfy.

I don't know a lot about them other than they have basically the same engine as my wife's Celica GT. I have assumed (possibly incorrectly) that due to the small production volume there aren't many parts available to improve performance. I figure a couple of years after I make my next automotive acquisition I'll get bored and need to start modifying to improve performance instead of changing vehicles.

XS makes a turbo kit. Check this out. http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0610sccp_project_mr2_spyder/index.html

I miss sportcompactcar ...

The one I drove was the most exploitable, sweetest handling stock car I've ever driven. Toyota absolutely nailed it with that chassis.

they were on my short list of cars to buy new a few years ago.. but I needed to pack more than a hankie from time to time

lizard wrote:

z31maniac wrote: But a turbo MR2 with some proper mods and sticky tires would be a hoot!

I'm sure it would, but I don't want to stray that far from the herd. I'm sheople that way instead of cutting edge. Can't afford to be the one who has to figure it all out myself. Not enough time or $ available.

I agree completely.

But I believe all the "common" mods are readily available for those cars, intake/exhaust/tune/suspension/brakes.

There is sufficient aftermarket for the MR-S.

Yeah, no lack of aftermarket for the last 2 MR2 generations. Probably kind of hard to find a clean mk2 turbo though (if that's what you're after).

DukeOfUndersteer wrote: Z3 M Roadster is one of the scariest cars i have ever driven.

I have to agree... I own one. I recall back when they were new my buddy (a BMW club driving instructor) bought one and traded it back in within a month... said he'd kill himself in it.

My E30's have sufficient wheelbase and insufficient power to get out of shape badly. And my E36M3 was one of the most neutral, forgiving cars I've driven.

The M Roadster is a nervous, twitchy little thing... but can reward a skilled driver. I took mine to a track day at Summit Point (everything else was broken!) and got enough seat time to dial it in... tire pressures were super critical... I ended up with much lower rear pressure than I had anticipated.... it was almost uncontrollable with higher pressures. (Edit... definitely not suggesting I am a 'skilled driver'... I was turning similar times to a well-driven Miata on R's... but a better driver could have taken much better advantage of the Z's performance)

Still, following a stock E46 sedan (on all season tires no less) around the track, it was clear that I was continuously fighting to keep the Roadster (on older summer only tires) on line while the E46 was almost casually cruising around the track.

I enjoy the little car, but you have to give it some serious levels of respect as it will get out from under you quickly.

Bill

yes.. the Z3 M cars were definatly the last of the "bite hard" cars from BMW. Almost a shame they do not make them like that anymore

Almost a shame they do not make them like that anymore

Why? You can modify anything to become a deathtrap. I have no problem with cars being sold safe. Leave the liability and the lack of judgment to the owners. As long as you can turn off the electronic aids, im good.

I had the same problem with my Aries. Although its FWD, i found it nerve-wrackingly tail-happy on cold or wet pavement. Now, that doesnt mean the car is failing, per se, because it wasnt designed to be that way, and i dont HAVE to use it when its cold or wet.

But, suffice it to say that putting too fine a point on a car's handling can really take the fun out of using it.

well, look at it this way.. which car would be more fun to pilot around a track. A Z3M that is out to bite you if you get it wrong.. or the E46m3 that practically drives itself around the track for you.

I would rather be slower in the Z3

QFT

mad_machine wrote: well, look at it this way.. which car would be more fun to pilot around a track. A Z3M that is out to bite you if you get it wrong.. or the E46m3 that practically drives itself around the track for you. I would rather be slower in the Z3

I'd rather take a car that lets me concentrate on perfecting my driving. IE, something that lets me try that decreasing radius turn with a little trail throttle oversteer one lap, a tidy later apex one lap later and drifting a late apex the next time around.

Can anybody explain why the Z3 is a twitchy, angry car and the E30 is so exploitable?

Nobody said that the M Roadster wasn't exploitable... just that it takes a higher level of skill and effort to do so.

Mainly wheelbase and torque... but the stock M Roadster seems sprung a lot tighter than even my modified E30's.

It's similar to the difference between a Corvair and a 911 (especially the earlier ones). Both handle similarly, but the Corvair is much more benign and easier to deal with... while the 911 will heartily reward a more skilled driver.

Back from the dead . . .

But with video!!!

M Roadster in action!!

This pretty much sums it up . . .

Depends what your purpose is for the car. If I wanted a cruiser that would be nice, sporty, and comfortable, I'd go with the Z3. If I wanted a track car/auto-x car that I can also zip around town in, I'd get the Miata.

I do think the M Coupe is the best of that breed. Just the perfect car if you never want to drive more than one other person around.

lizard wrote:

Strike_Zero wrote: Back from the dead . . .

You should change your user name to Strike_Zombie 'cause you are apparently an agent for the Zombies (you keep bringing things back from the dead!). /threadjack: Did you sell your B4? Saw it posted on either ST-n or VFRD... /end threadjack.

Hehehe . . Boredom is what it's called

Nope haven't sold it yet. Gotten some nibbles and mostly wrong coast posts and PMs. I need to get off my duff and finish it . . .

2002maniac wrote: Interesting fact, the 2.8 and 3.0 sixes have aluminum blocks. No weight penalty over the 1.9 4-cyl

Is this true? I thought that all the Bimmer 6's were over 400 lbs.