Lemons cars

Long post, not sorry.

I have been racing (is it really, though?) In lemons since 2016. I have only done events at CMP and Barber. The one at CMP was super fun a couple weeks ago, you may have seen me "attractively washing" our car after I got 2 black flags in 5 or less laps for the spins, both immediately after our captain got a black flag for a 4 off.

We may have been in over our head in that car, we swapped a K24 into the Kia between day 1 and 2, it made it so much faster it was amazing.

But that is only where this E36 M3 show starts.

My wife wants to build a car now. Yes, I can fix almost anything and I can be quite creative about it. Yes, I hate money.

The dilemma:

I have a 1998 Ford Ranger XLT 3.slow 2wd auto extended cab perched on jack stands in the driveway right now. Got it for just over $900. It runs, not that great, but it does. I have no idea if the trans is any good, I've never actually driven the truck in the 3+ years I've had it. I bought it to flip it, found out head gasket was blown. Found a cheap parts truck that ran, stole engine and trans for dirt cheap, threw it in, connected stuff, it sits because the brakes are being a real pain to bleed.

It's one of those projects you work on real hard for a bit then let it sit for months at a time because life or weather then get back at it.

My wife wants to buy a car off marketplace to build and race.

I am kind of leaning towards using the Ranger as we already have the damn thing.

It can't be worth more than $2000-$2700 on a lucky day, and honestly, it's just a damn Ranger. Dime a dozen, no one cares about them. Especially in the Atlanta area.

I've looked on marketplace, found a couple of candidates, but I just don't know. I also am not totally sure how to convince my wife to just run what we brung. She's much more eloquent, I'm a dirty mechanic with the verbal acuity of a dead monkey. She can talk circles around most people.

Also, I can find parts for days for this thing. And did someone say V8 swap? I would love to.

What do the bad influences of GRM have to say?

She raced before?

If not, go with Ranger till she is sureshe is enthusiastic about it 

Mr_Asa said:

She raced before?

If not, go with Ranger till she is sureshe is enthusiastic about it 

She has drag raced a bit when she was younger, but never racing that requires turns.

She is a car girl, so there is that. She's owned 7 or 8 Mustang's, most of them GTs. Her current is a 2013 GT with some cranky mufflers on it, I think Super 10's right out at the tips. She floors it everywhere.

I agree with your thought process, though.

Unless she is completely hostile to the idea run the Ranger.

Buy her a track day somewhere so she can see if she likes it first.

I definitely agree with the trying a track day first.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say do a dozen track days to learn how to drive on track BEFORE going racing.  IMHO the biggest problem with Lemons is that they throw people out into a race with 250 cars on a 2.3 mile track who have never driven on track before.

As for the Ranger... it's not to my taste.  It sounds like it would be a handful to try to drive fast on a track, which doesn't seem like a great choice for a new racer.

We raced Lemons(mostly CMP an Barber) for 2 years when our friends/girlfriends wanted in. So we built a second car and were running 8-10 people per weekend. Very glad we did! Although it was a lot of work and we are back to only 5 people and 1 car at a time.

I'd say go for the ranger. Nobody judging really cares about if you're not in a cometive car. Find a new 3.0 and mabye M5OD if you're feeling fancy. Caging a full frame car is a little harder than a unibody so make sure you check with John Pagel. 

Small pickups are pretty fun on track. Ask Klayfish(can't remember your new name, sorry) abuot the truck in his profile picture. We race a "toyota pickup" which isn't but looks like one!

 

I just finished building a cage for a father/son/daughter team. He called me and asked if I could build a Lemons-compliant cage in a Lexus IS350. Really, an IS350, yep really. When I asked him why, his reply was it's a Toyota, parts are crazy cheap and he bought the car from salvage really cheap! He sold off a bunch of "stuff", so he was in the car right and why not. It came with a trans cooler, LSD, nice brakes, ABS, tilt/telescopic wheel to fit different drivers and more. You can find suitable candidates on Copart or IAAI.

My wife and I ran lemons and champCar for about 15 years.

Run the ranger.

Ls4 drivetrain in the back.  24 gallon cell up front.

Center seating position.

Do eet.

For the vast majority of folks my recommendation is to buy a used race car (that's actually raced), especially lemons. It'll cost half or less.

They pop up on Facebook and on the lemons forum or you can post that you want to buy one and I've seen that work.

Personally I'd not bother with the HPDE unless it's convenient/cheap or you're shaking the car down - Lemons is a series for people who have never raced (among others), anyone frustrated with the quality of racer didn't read the tin before opening: "Racing for Real People"

There's plenty of other series for squinty eye'd racer types.

I say run the Ranger. Not just as a first step, but long term.

Since getting into endurance (Lucky Dog) racing, I've come to the belief that (for this type of racing) the the best race car might just be a truck. Why?

The primary reason is that the cost and hassle of a cage relative the the value of these vehicles is very disproportionate. That's a big part of the buy rather than build philosophy even when it's a non-runner. So the idea that you could build a caged cab that is independent from the suspension supporting frame, and could even be transferred between frames if need be, is immensely attractive... Beyond that, the most commonly damaged sheet metal is entirely non-structural and easily replaceable.

While it does add weight and length, the potential benefit of the extended cab is it *might* even be possible to fit the rear bracing inside of the cab too. The biggest drawback to your extended cab being a 1998 is the lack of rear doors that would make caging considerably easier.

A secondary reason to consider a race truck is look at the side profile of the frame and consider how easily it could be turned into substantial underbody aero... Just sayin'.

Driven5 said:

The primary reason is that the cost and hassle of a cage relative the the value of these vehicles is very disproportionate. That's a big part of the buy rather than build philosophy even when it's a non-runner. So the idea that you could build a caged cab that is independent from the suspension supporting frame, and could even be transferred between frames if need be, is immensely attractive... Beyond that, the most commonly damaged sheet metal is entirely non-structural and easily replaceable.

That's sadly not how cages work on full frame vehicles. The cage has to be tied into the frame using outriggers.

buzzboy said:

Driven5 said:

The primary reason is that the cost and hassle of a cage relative the the value of these vehicles is very disproportionate. That's a big part of the buy rather than build philosophy even when it's a non-runner. So the idea that you could build a caged cab that is independent from the suspension supporting frame, and could even be transferred between frames if need be, is immensely attractive... Beyond that, the most commonly damaged sheet metal is entirely non-structural and easily replaceable.

That's sadly not how cages work on full frame vehicles. The cage has to be tied into the frame using outriggers.

I was originally thinking about it via SCCA GCR, which expressly appears to allow bolting to the outriggers. Looks like LDR and Lemons both required welded, which I'd probably do anyways. Regardless, I see nothing in the rules directly or indirectly prohibiting transferring a fully caged cab from one frame to another. A little cutting and welding outside of the cab on the outriggers still seems like a hell of a lot less time, effort, and money than building a whole new cage inside a unibody car. Can you point to what here is either not allowed by the rules or not feasible?

We ran a 78 Malibu in lemons for years.

John Pagel (Lemons tech guy) made us weld our cage to the frame.  It had been welded to the body.  We had to make plinth boxes and holes in the floor to connect the cage to the frame.

Fun stuff.

Edit to clarify....  there were probably other ways to do it.  This was the easiest in our case.

I believe the "Chotus" that ran in lemons had welded outriggers from the frame but them bolted to the cage through the body.  So, there is definitely a way to do it safely and make it removeable.

I can't point to the written rule but I know that is how the head tech inspector interprets the rule.

In reply to buzzboy :

What is how the head tech inspector interprets the rule? Just that the cage needs to be tied into the frame using outriggers? It absolutely would be. I don't see how the relative modularity of a caged truck cab in any way violates the letter, spirit, or intent of that (or any other) rule or interpretation you're describing.

Yes, the cage must be welded into outriggers from the frame. I don't see how you can remove the cab of a truck that has a cage inside it where the cage is tied into the frame.

In reply to buzzboy :

It's just steel. Cut and weld. Keep the work outside of the cab. There are numerous potential options depending on the org(s). Considering what has to be done to install and fully weld a second cage into a second car, it seems like they would be nothing by comparison though. Alternatively, the frame fore and aft of the cage-reinforced section could also be considered more akin to 'subframes' (i.e. replaceable) in the event of a front and/or rear hit. The more intentionally thought out it all is ahead of time, the easier it should be.